Appreciate the forum’s input on this topic. Need a full size SUV 4WD because of 7 people. Initially was thinking a lot of different cars (i.e. BMW X7, Volvo XC90, Kia Telluride, etc.) but ultimately the wife wanted a full size one, AKA Chevrolet Tahoe, Ford Expedition. When researching, I was taken aback at how many GM vehicles were being recalled due to the engine, so this X’ed out the GMC Yukon, Chevy Tahoe, Cadillac Escalade, etc. We then took a short trip in 2024 Jeep Wagoneer, and were very pleasantly surprised. While it lacked some amenities, I was sold on the size of the 3rd row (important for the family), as well as the interior space, air ride suspension and most importantly that it wouldn’t cost a fortune compared to the other full size SUV’s. So we started looking at these vehicles, and some dealers were offering nearly 8-9k off the MSRP. I think for a good value the 2025 Jeep Wagoneer Carbide edition 4WD would be good, but wanted to ask the forum their thoughts on how “hackable” this would be. Is it reasonable to ask 15-18% off MSRP? We are in FL.
I was primarily thinking of leasing the vehicle, given these reviews online that said there were transmission issues or sometimes the car would have electronic issues. On a separate note, does anyone have experience on the Japanese full size SUV’s? It seems the Nissan Armada is the only vehicle within our price range (less than 70k) whereas the Infiniti QX80 is so much more expensive. Would one think the Nissan is more reliable than Jeep? Thanks a bunch!
If you’re leasing, the engine issues on the Chevys/GMCs shouldn’t be a main concern to you since you’re not keeping it long-term. Wagoneers are also known for multiple issues, so it isn’t a safer choice by any means.
Try not to look so much at the MSRP in the vacuum, but at the vehicle that’s hackable at the moment (QX80 vs Armada in this case).
Echoing the sentiment that if you are set on leasing, then the concerns over the GM products should be diminished. The Wagoneer will for sure end up in the shop with an issue during a 3 year lease.
In terms of your specific question for best “leases” by most metrics in this community, I do believe it will be the Nissan.
The Wagoneer Carbide, while being really good looking imho, is probably the worst pick for value and reliability. And dealerships near me in CA never discounted the Carbides because they look the best and were the most sought after. YMMV
Lots of fleets use Tahoes and Expeditions, including my work. Like any mass produced big hunker of a car, they have their issues.
Would you consider purchasing a CPO instead of a lease?
Recap:
Do not own the Wagoneer, lease it.
If purchasing, GM products retain the most value in CA, check in FL how they fare and reevaluate.
Based on what metric or time horizon? For example how much do two consecutive Wagoneer leases cost compared to owning, say, an Expedition over the same time span (financing payments made less equity accumulated)?
My friend had a GMC Yukon Denali that just stopped in the middle of a freeway…was terrifying to listen to his story. Can’t deal with the vehicle being in the shop waiting for the engine repair. so wife said no to GM.
Reviewing these posts makes me reconsider the Wagoneer…i was hoping that some people would have had a better experience but all the online reviews had pretty bad issues. one would have hoped they would have ironed out the issues by 2025 once it was released 3 years ago…right..? we thought about financing a CPO but we had a pretty bad experience with a prior BMW CPO so we’ve been leasing since then.
with regards to Nissan Armada, I haven’t test driven one yet but the PRO-4X model caught my eye. it is definitely hackable? QX80 is nearly 23,000 dollars more expensive so just out of our budget.
when we were looking at full size SUV’s the MSRP for the trim levels we wanted were just much more affordable than other class SUV’s. really at the end of the day, we just want a big family hauler that is reliable and doesn’t go for repairs and is not out of commission. doesn’t need to be fancy. i seriously considered a minivan but i was outnumbered with the family wanting an SUV hah.
I leased a 2024 Wagoneer carbide series II from a dealer in Ohio about 6 months ago for $900 sign and drive. Car was about $84k don’t recall the discount and incentives but that should be your target. 2024 was the first year of the new hurricane v6 twin turbo so no more v8 issues. Wife loves the car so far no issues. You will need to shop it around
Is the Armada hackable? No. It has a high money factor (as do all the big vehicles seemingly). But it has a respectable 36/39 month residual value on the lower trims. It’s a new redesign so inventory may be constrained. It may present a strong value-to-cost analysis when compared to other truck-based 3-row SUVs.
Its luxury sibling, the newest Infiniti QX80, has a small bit of lease cash plus a conquest incentive if you were in a qualifying luxury vehicle recently. Those two stacking on top of a polite dealer discount, compounded by the much lower money factor than the Armada, make the QX80 a better lease even for a $92k MSRP Luxe RWD.
The new Armada PRO-4X does not have strong lease terms in contrast.
Nissan looks to have a competitor on their hands though, I could envision the Armada PRO-4X holding value. Too soon to know though.
hah you are right, i was looking at all the responses and did not end up answering your question in fact. i haven’t really thought about it in that context as the wife and i do enjoy driving new cars every 3 years. we previously had a CPO that was a terrible purchase, and so for peace of mind we just had been leasing cars since then. it would be interesting to see how much more expensive the two consecutive leases would be though relative to one long financing
appreciate your response. i was crunching the numbers on edmunds calculator, and the MF for an infiniti QX80 was definitely much lower (Infiniti was 0.00183 versus Nissan which was 0.00328) which meant that the monthly payments would be about $200 less for the Infiniti versus a Nissan Armada PRO-4X. we totally thought that we were going into this with a set mind of a jeep wagoneer carbide, but now i’m not so sure. have to test drive these other vehicles now! such a difficult decision and too much time that i am dedicating to this haha
sorry i realized i had not responded to your post from earlier. i thought when going into a car lease, you do want to think about MSRP? the selling price, money factor, and residual would be all important as these would be related to the MSRP. and having all these incentives added on to the MSRP would end up lowering your lease payment? and also the residual for when if you do decide to purchase the vehicle would be also technically lower?
Even though higher MSRP will generally lead to a higher payment, a hackable lease is precisely getting the most bang (MSRP) for your buck (effective monthly payment).
This site has multiple examples of people paying $300/mo for 70k cars, it all comes down to getting the right car at the right time.
I have an atlas and my in-laws have a Tahoe, it’s about the same amount of space. Both vehicles have captains chairs in the back too. The Tahoe is a little more maneuverable because of the height, but overall, about the same.
