2018 Volvo S60 T5 FWD Sedan Deal

Don’t be an idiot, just accept that you messed up on your excel.



Is there any dealer cash on S60? I see your S90 deals have extra $2K. or is it part of regular Volvo incentives?

Based on the rest of the thread I doubt I’ll get a real answer to my question.

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Hey Maxine!
Have great day and a better tomorrow.

Thanks…can you link or post the following articles (iterative solutions + capitalizing upfront taxes)?

PS: I think you’ll find the ‘attacks and sarcasm’ would stop if you hadn’t started them in the first place.


Am I mistaken or the dealer discount is weak.
Msrp 40.2 - 3.5 - 2.75 - 1 = 32.9 (volvo incentives of 3.5k, 2.75k and 1k loyalty).
Selling price 30k
Dealer discount 2.9k around 7.5%.
S90 are going for 10% dealer discounts with doc fees of $80. Here is 7.5% discount with a doc fee of 899?

Actually taking into account the doc fee isn’t it like a 6% discount ( ie walk into the dealership holding A plan pin and get haggle free price?)

The selling price isn’t net of the $1,000 rebate that was given, it was only after the $6,250 total incentives for a lease.

$41,285 MSRP
$06,250- non-taxable incentives
$30,023- net selling price/agreed value

$05,012 dealer discount = 12.14%, pretty deep considering the other incentives. The $899 doc fee is ridiculous and essentially dealer profit, so maybe they look at that as something they can give up.

@delta737h - if you could post a scan or photo of the relevant parts of the actual lease contract, it would make things clearer. A VIN would make it more interesting.

I think the dealer made a mistake and gave the OP a $1,000 rebate when it should have been $500, but maybe in southern Florida there’s some special enhancement. If not, you got a $500 gift. If you already inked the deal, then it’s too late to put up 4 deposits = $1,400. If you wanted to put down as little as possible, why didn’t you finance the $600 cash due at signing for a “zero drive-off” deal? The money’s cheap (and could have been cheaper at 0.00002).


Many thanks for your interest. It’s very rare that someone shows this kind of interest. It happened to me once when I had a lively three-hour conversation with a Honda F&I guy in Ohio. He was genuinely interested and I helped him construct a spreadsheet because his ADP software was giving him inaccurate answers. Didn’t matter, though, Honda Finance couldn’t care less. They wanted the ADP answers. So, I crafted a work around so the customer wasn’t getting cheated out of a few dollars.

I can’t publish the contract as this is a lease I negotiated on someone else’s behalf. If it were my lease, I would be happy to publish it. I’m not trying to dodge… just don’t think it would be appropriate. Furthermore, the deal has not been inked yet and won’t be until tomorrow or Tuesday. So, yes, the dealer could come back and say we made a mistake. That would be colossal since I interrogated the sales manager for several minutes regarding the lease loyalty amount. He remained adamant that it is 1,000 for a lease. Whether it’s 500 or 1,000, I’m prepared to deal with it as I’ve already described.
The sell price is a number that I negotiated with the dealer. I started at 28,500.
Regarding the discount, I think the best way to handle the calculation is to ask what a reasonable dealer doc fee is in Florida. If you believe that $200 is reasonable, then I would compute the discount rate, after all OEM incentives are applied, as follows…

41,285 - 6,250 - (899 - 200) - 30,023 = 4,313
4,313 / 41,285 = 10.4%

I view (899 - 200) = 699 as ADP… additional dealer profit.

I don’t think any adjustments to the upfront charges are necessary and don’t consider any of them to be significant in terms of ADP.

Regarding MSD’s … I don’t think the lessee wants to do that even though the annualized rate of return is a whopping 9.85% tax free! There is some risk in doing so but I suspect it’s minimal.
I’m okay with paying the upfront fees as opposed to capping them.

Well, it doesn’t sound like you have a lease contract to scan or photograph, anyway. I can’t see how it would be any breach of privacy if you block out any personal information. How can numbers on an actual contract be confidential if they’re the same as your worksheet? You said they were the same. I suspect the actual lease contract is going to show $915 as the cash due at signing with the 1st payment because I don’t think you can zero out the payment there. A dealer can certainly charge your friend $600 instead of $915, but it just seems funky.

Let them make the mistake if there is one on the loyalty rebate. If you keep asking them about it, they may figure out it’s a mistake, reduce the rebate, and refuse to discount the car any more. Personally, I think you’ve already beaten every penny out of it.

I don’t know about Florida, but in CA the doc fee is $80- no more, no less. Either the dealers charge it everybody or they charge it to nobody. I don’t see you having luck asking them to give up their profit on the doc- but have at it.

You had mentioned putting as little down as possible, and with the MF so low, my suggestion is to finance everything. It’s no big deal- your friend is only coming up with $600, which looks profit-free to me.

What risk do you see in MSDs?

You said…
“_Well, it doesn’t sound like you have a lease contract to scan or photograph, anyway.”

You’re accusing me of lying. Why would I lie? I’m sick of being attacked and ridiculed by people that don’t know me or, don’t know what they’re talking about. End of discussion!

MSRP is 41,285, so discount is around 10%. I agree, it is weak for old outgoing S60, anyway.


I’m seeing a 27.3% discount here- (41,285 - 30,023)/41,285. And the discount is bigger with the loyalty rebate as well, although not everybody qualifies for it. Not everybody qualifies for the A-Plan incentive either, so is a $3,000 incentive on an S90 or V90 irrelevant?

Or does LEASEHACKR not count incentives as part of the discount? If not, I think a boat is being missed here. How are discounts measured here? Please show how you’re coming up with around 10%.

I showed why it is 10% earlier in the thread.


The thought process here is to target discount from MSRP before incentives in order to level playing field. Incentives vary from market to market. Many times the dealer is including the incentives in their published prices. Also, lease incentives differ from purchase ones. So the starting point is dealer discount from msrp, and then layer in the rest when building out the calculation.

Sorry, but that’s lame. Usually when a dealer offers a big discount, it’s the result of incentives. Some incentives are not visible to the public. It seems the level playing field is the actual discount, regardless of who provided the discount, manufacturer or discount.

41,285 - 6,250 - 30,023 = 5,012 > 12.14%

Let’s imagine the Volvo lease incentive is $20,000. I guess you guys would consider it a crummy deal if the dealer only discounted the MSRP by 10%? You guys need some sort of ‘blood on the floor factor.’ Find a way to measure how close to net net the dealer came out.

It’s about transparency in the pricing. It’s the easiest way to compare pricing from different parts of the country where the incentive structure may vary. The same reason that people request taxes be left out of the comparison because they can vary so much by region.

Here is an example: someone from the NE posts an S90 lease deal on a T5 AWD at $400/mth and splits their costs out: 10% off MSRP, All incentives, MSDs, etc. Someone from FL reads the deal, has negotiated a similar monthly (or total discount) and doesn’t care how it is split out. They may have left an extra $2000 on the table because of an extra S90 incentive in their region. So even though the monthly is the same, the dealer was discounting the vehicle $2k less in order to get to that price because of the incentive. So all else being equal the buyer could have reduced their monthly by $55-80 by negotiating the dealer down to 10% off.


Do you think you can convince Delta’s Siamese twin? :slight_smile:

Measuring how much the dealer can and or will discount is the hardest part and thus why we focus on it. Any dealer will offer you the factory incentives you qualify for, the question for hacking a deal is really how much can a dealer discount on their own inventory before you have hit the floor and then finding one who will play ball. Knowing that is critical to understanding what a realistic total discount is for a given model/brand.

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I’m not clear that a lease has been signed here. You imply that one has, yet the numbers you present don’t jive with a Volvo lease contract. Yeah, I don’t know you. All I know about you is the posts in this thread and some other ones in another thread about how hard it is to get a deal from south Florida dealers. From your posts here, I think you’re an arrogant, condescending, know-it-all prick. “To wit”:

"I couldn’t care less what the disclosure states."

"You need to get a life or find something to do. When it comes to leasing, especially the mathmatics part, you’re not even in my league, sport. Get off my back."

"Ah, no. I didn’t go to the same college that you did that offers remediation, key boarding, and under water basket weaving."

"So, when uranus said…"

"I’m not arrogant. Just trying my best to be helpful."

Me accusing you of lying is your words, not mine. If a genius such as yourself finds showing the structure of a lease from the lease itself some sort of invasion of privacy, then that’s your issue. I’m not asking to see any of the lessee’s personal information. I’m just not into taking your word for things any more than you’re not interested in what disclosures say.

I assume you’re including me as one of your attackers or ridiculers. That’s fine- you deserve some of it. I suppose you think I don’t know what I’m talking about, either. I’ve worked as a sales manager with Volvo for 10 years. It is actually you who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, or worse yet, thinks he knows what he’s talking about, which is worse. “To wit”:

"I constructed the deal, not the dealer. Note that the first payment is capped in the lease. Lots of dealer programs don’t do this correctly." Volvo leases are not designed to capitalize the first payement, and I’m not aware of any that are. Question- if you have (in your case) a $1,000 rebate, why put it back in as a cap cost reduction? As you know, it triggers $60 tax in the drive-off. You’re showing a drive-off of $600 which doesn’t include the ‘capped first payment.’ Why not let the $1,000 rebate cover the entire drive-off, with any leftover to go as a cap reduction. The Volvo lease computer can handle that with ease.

And guess what, sport? You don’t have to develop a quadratic equation to figure out what the first payment is once capped. If the drive-off is $600 not including a payment of say, $300, it would normally be a $900 drive-off. If you want to cap the payment, add say $305 to the selling price so the dealer can make your payment for you. If the drive-off increases to $904, then reduce the selling price $1 and see when you get close enough to a match. NASA equations aren’t needed when you’re talking about pennies.

Good luck negotiating a lower doc fee, sport.

Assuming the lease loyalty is $500 and not $1,000, my suggestion is let the dealer give your friend $1,000. The more you ask, the more likely they’ll discover the mistake (assuming there is one), and it’s not likely that they’re going to go “Okay, yes, the lease loyalty rebate is in fact $500. We’ll just give you another $500 of discount along with a $600 reduction in our doc fee.” Not a problem, especially with south Florida dealers, right?

And, yes, published Volvo to dealer incentives (operating support) total $6,250. Sorry, sport. Published dealer incentives are different from operating support and are in addition to it.

"Two sales managers told me the lease loyalty is $1,000. Furthermore, the contract says so which passed Volvo’s validation test." Either the two sales managers are wrong about the rebate or it is enhanced to $1,000 for south Florida dealers. Two sales managers thinking something doesn’t make it correct. And by the way, sport, the lease validation test doesn’t validate rebates. It validates residual percentages and money factors (including if MSDs are used) against the VIN.

Looking forward to some of this going to the landfill department. Been there yet, sport?