I have received the attached quote for a QX60 Luxe AWD. To summarize the deal so far -
MSRP is $54,030
Eligible for Conquest & VPP
Selling price (before VPP & Conquest) is $47k
Lease term - 10/39
Residual - 57%
MF: 0.00035 (Worksheet does not include any MSD’s at this time (I plan on bringing it up at the time of signing)
No down payment, with the exception of registration / doc fees
(I am unable to arrive at the same monthly, when I plug in the numbers into the LH calc)
Hence, could I request the help of fellow-hackers to please review the attached quote and see if anything is amiss?
It looks as though the $1,500 rebate is being applied twice… in one instance, it’s used as a cap reduction and, in another instance, it’s used as a credit to reduce the $2,500 DAS. There is one other possibility which is the $2,500 DAS already includes the $1,500 rebate to be used as a cap reduction(doesn’t make sense… it’s a rebate!) and, they’re simply issuing a credit and applying it to reduce the gross cap. You need to clarify this with the dealer and, be sure to get an itemization of all amounts due at signing (DAS).
It appears that the dealer arrived at the $582.15 cash cap reduction so that the amount due at signing is an even $1,000 which equals $417.85 + $582.15. In this case, the $1,500 rebate is applied to the $2,500 DAS.
But, here’s my biggest concern… The sales tax does not appear to be calculated correctly. The $417.85 is your monthly lease payment which includes capped tax. Illinois levies tax on the sum of the base lease payments (not shown) which includes capped taxable fees. The $417.85 includes both capped taxable and capped non-taxable fees. If I were to levy tax on the sum of the $417.85 monthly payments, I would get…
0.08250 x $417.85 x 39 = $1,344.75. Adding tax on the sum of the rebate and cash cap reduction yields…
$1,344.75 + 0.0825 x $2,082.10 = $1,516.53 which is close to the $1,514.48 in the worksheet. This tells me that something is wrong assuming tax on tax is illegal.
Please recognize that the $417.85 ALREADY INCLUDES TAX. So, tax is levied on tax which I believe is illegal.
At any rate, here’s what I get…
Sell Price = 45,500.00|
Gross Cap = 47,981.76
Adj. Cap = 45,895.75
Resid. Val = 30,797.10
Lease Payment = 413.99
Base Payment = 372.25
Tax on $586.01 + $1,500 = 172.10
Tax on Base Pay = 1,197.72
Total Tax (excl.$15 flat tax) = 1,369.82
DAS (413.99 + 586.01) = 1,000.00
And, in any event, it would behoove you to get a detailed explanation from the dealer. I’ll be glad to help you with any questions.
Delta737h, I cannot thank you enough for your detailed analysis. I would need to read through your explanation again though to grasp it fully. The dealer indicated that the amounts due at signing would be the DMV misc fees of approx 396 plus the first month payment. It confuses me as to why the DAS says $2500 (no idea where this comes from!) and then the conquest rebate of $1500 is applied to it.
Could you help explain to me how you arrived at the gr cap and adj gr cap numbers in your calc?
According to the dealer’s lease worksheet, all fees are capped including the DMV and miscellaneous fees… see the first and second columns. It appears that the $2,500 = $1,500 (rebate) + $417.85 (payment) + $582.15 (cash cap reduction). Because the $2,500 includes the $1,500 rebate, they deducted this from the $2,500 and applied toward reducing the gross cap (i.e… it’s a cap reduction… first column). Therefore, the only amount that you would owe upfront is the remaining $1,000 which is the first payment of $417.85 plus the cash cap reduction of $582.15. Why they included the rebate in the $2,500 is a mystery to me as it makes no sense.
The sales tax doesn’t appear to be correct as explained in my previous post. Your total sales tax should be $1,369.82 + $15 flat tax. The $1,369.82 is calculated as follows…
8.25% x 372.25 (base payment) x 39 + 8.25% x (1,500 + 586.01) = 1,369.82 (rounded up)
Thank you yet again, delta737h. Based on your advise, I will certainly ask the dealer to provide a breakdown of their tax of $1514.
On a separate note, I know that it is generally advisable not to put a down payment (due to risk of losing it, in the event the car gets totaled). My question/concern is, the worksheet shows the DAS of $2500 and the CR total of $2082. Are these considered as ‘down payment’?
Only part of the $2,500 DAS is a down payment . Down payment is the same as the cap reduction. So, the 2,082 (part of the 2,500) is a down payment which includes the 1,500 rebate and the cash cap reduction of 582. All you really need is to make your first payment at lease signing which is not a down payment. You do not need to put any cash down i.e., 582.
If you don’t put any cash down, here is what the numbers should look like…
Sell Price = 45,500.00|
Gross Cap = 47,982.41
Adj. Cap = 46,482.41
Resid. Val = 30,797.10
Lease Payment = 429.24
Base Payment = 387.48
Tax on $1,500 rebate = 123.75
Tax on the sum of Base Payments = 1,246.72
Total Tax (excl.$15 flat tax) = 1,370.47
DAS (1st payment) = 429.24
The dealer’s calculation is wrong. They are computing tax on tax. The 417.82 payment ALREADY INCLUDES TAX. The dealer is capping the sales tax so that the 417.82 payment includes the 1,516 tax. Do you understand what I’m saying? Tax is supposed to be computed on the BASE PAYMENT. There is no way I would agree to such a lease. This is why I always create a lease proposal and am always in control of the deal. You need to control the deal, not the dealer.
I completely agree! I have been trying to spend the last hour or so trying to make them understand this. I am left wondering if this is a genuine mistake that they are inadvertently making, or if they are actually trying to make some money off this (the couple of hundred dollars)
I have negotiated several leases in the Chicago area as I have friends from my old stomping ground in Evanston. My son recently moved to East Dundee from Chicago and, teaches at the William Harper College in Palatine. I’ve never seen anything like this. To be quite candid, dealers don’t understand leasing calculations. They only understand how to press keys on a computer and, sometimes they screw that up. Try telling them that they’re calculating tax on tax. If they fail to comprehend that, perhaps you should try another dealer. I wouldn’t reward incompetence with my business.
This is nonsense as they calculate tax on tax… $417.82 already has tax in it. $2500 Das should be taxed only partially and this is not the way to calculate tax…
Last evening, the dealer sent across the excel worksheet that they use for computing the tax. I am sharing a screenshot below. I am puzzled by the ‘tax factor’ that features in the worksheet. Any idea?
That’s one thing you can always count on in our state. Tax us to death…which drives more people out of the state. Solution: Tax the remaining people more to recoup what we lost. Could we be the next Detroit?
