Audi RS ETron GT
BMW i4
Toyota 4Runner
Acura NSX
Had similar cars (slightly higher values) when annual premium was below $4k without the teen driver.
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The $20k premium and now $12k premium both include good student discount and defensive driving discount.
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Cant you switch him as the driver on the 4runner? Insurance companies realize they may drive different cars in the household.
I’d imagine they would eventually do something about it. All my friends used the same loophole…
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Here is what you said:
My question to State Farm would be: How does age NOT matter??? Those with little driving experience are highly correlated with those at a young age. The less driving experience that one has, the more likely they are to be young. State Farm’s statement to you doesn’t make much sense to me. I also said that this cohort (group) is more likely to have accidents and speeding tickets than other cohorts. Once upon a time (40 some years ago), I was a practicing actuary. I’ve seen the data and I’m willing to bet that it hasn’t changed in any significant way.
Then you said:
And I said… Of course, they do… I was agreeing with you! What State Farm told you didn’t make sense to me. They were claiming age doesn’t matter when, in fact, IT DOES MATTER and so does driving experience as well as claims history. Years ago, insurance carrier auto rating manuals identified younger cohorts by age ranges (e.g., 16-18, 19-21, 22-25). Age does provide some measure of driving experience. When one applies for auto insurance, one is always required to provide proof of age (DL). I’ve never seen an auto insurance app that asks for years of driving experience but perhaps that has changed from 40 years ago.
I use to work for State Farm ~10 years ago, I assume it hasn’t changed much. Young driver rates drop significantly at age 25 (assuming clean record) and there was an option to check off a driver as “away at school” which would drop the rate during that time. This was in PA, it’s different in every state.
Never needed to include years of experience, only DOB. By the time you put in the driver’s license number, where I assume they can see the date of issue, the price was already determined.
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Don’t know man, but 40 years ago my kids weren’t driving and neither was I.
As far as “age” goes (in California at least - which I was specifically talking about), people should really have their facts straight before blathering on about things that they clearly don’t have a clue about:
CA Insurance Code Section 1861.02:
(a) Rates and premiums for an automobile insurance policy, as described in subdivision (a) of Section 660, shall be determined by application of the following factors in decreasing order of importance:
(1) The insured’s driving safety record.
(2) The number of miles he or she drives annually.
(3) The number of years of driving experience the insured has had.
(4) Those other factors that the commissioner may adopt by regulation and that have a substantial relationship to the risk of loss. The regulations shall set forth the respective weight to be given each factor in determining automobile rates and premiums. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the use of any criterion without approval shall constitute unfair discrimination.
As for CA Insurance Commissioner regs go per Insurance Code section 1861.02(a)(4), age is not part of it at all:
10 CCR § 2632.5
In fact, it is to the contrary - age is specifically EXCLUDED from the rating:
10 CCR § 2632.4:
(a) No insurer shall use a rating factor which is not set forth in these regulations and no insurer shall adopt any rating factor based in whole or in part upon the race, language, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, age, political affiliation, or sexual orientation of any person.
See above, @holeydonut is 100% correct.
I am glad to see the California “experts on insurance” have chimed in about the age of the driver being a factor vs. years of experience when clearly the “age” of the driver has no bearing on it whatsoever - and in fact is prohibited from being used in the premium calculation.
Uhhh, by law? See above.
At least @SteveB25 gets it:
Unless I’m mistaken, you NEVER mentioned in any of your posts in this thread that you were specifically talking about CA. I’m not a mind-reader and am well aware that each state has its own insurance regulating entity (e.g., Ohio Department of Insurance). Unless you’re a practicing CA attorney in this area of the law, you should be very careful on the way you interpret law. It’s not always as it seems. @holeydonut may be correct… However, I’m smart enough to know that there is much more involved than quoting the CCR and would need more detail (e.g., definitions, construction, structural protocol, case law, if any exists). At any rate, I was speaking in generalities and not on behalf of any one specific state: nothing more, nothing less. And, yes, I get it.
In Ohio, DOB is an entry on insurance apps because the premiums (pricing structure) are different for young cohort groups. This is due to the fact that the costs (e.g., paid claims) are different among different cohorts for young people. So, as any economist knows, it’s not price discrimination because the costs are different. If CA doesn’t consider age, perhaps that’s one small reason why car insurance rates in CA are among the highest in the nation. I know there are other contributing factors (e.g., severe weather occurrences, large pool of uninsured motorists, disaster-related claims). If I were an insurance carrier, there is no way I would do business in CA at first glance based on the CA CCR alone. Apparently, some major car insurance companies are pulling out of CA. To wit…
Major car insurance companies getting out of California - CBS Los Angeles (cbsnews.com)
Cheers!
Before you decide to post and tell someone they are incorrect about what they are saying, and what they were told by their own State Farm agent, you should figure out or ask about the context first - or better yet, not post at all about unrelated experience from Ohio 40 years ago.
It is very clear what the California Insurance Code and CCRs state despite your inference that there may be some wiggle room that defeats the very obvious black and white language regarding age.
It is not a big secret where most of us live. You were wrong so please move on. This is not 1984.
I don’t think he’s totally wrong…at least according to Progressive.
Age is one of the most important factors in determining your car insurance rate. This may seem unfair because there are good drivers in every age group, but younger drivers are generally more likely to have accidents or take risks on the road. Experienced drivers are less likely to have accident claims, which means they cost less to insure. At Progressive, the average premium per driver tends to decrease significantly from 19-34 and then stabilize or decrease slightly from 34-75. At age 75, the average premium begins trending upward.
Edit: Allstate also says age affects premium
Some factors that may affect your auto insurance premiums are your car, your driving habits, demographic factors and the coverages, limits and deductibles you choose. These factors may include things such as your age, anti-theft features in your car and your driving record.
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I understand that is what Progressive and Allstate say in general on their website, and that may be the case in some other state or for those insurers in that state.
What matters to me, as far as dollars and cents, is what my State Farm agent told me, in California and apparently according to California law. My statement was made in that context in response to your first question.
I’m not trying to argue one way or another as I have no specific knowledge on underwriting or underwriting in CA. But when I read the statute you posted, it says that “the number of years of driving experience” is considered but I don’t see the statute excluding age.
I believe most insurance companies start to increase premiums once you reach 70-80 years of age. If age were not allowed to be considered, how would insurance companies be able to do this?
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Look at the statute at (a)(4) where it talks about “other regulations “as part of the analysis.
Then look at those regulations, specifically 10 CCR § 2632.4:
(a) No insurer shall use a rating factor which is not set forth in these regulations and no insurer shall adopt any rating factor based in whole or in part upon the race, language, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, age, political affiliation, or sexual orientation of any person.
Age is excluded in CA, and I would assume that would apply to older age as you referenced above as well.
I am sure @max_g will make a comment soon about argument. Wait for it……
FYI I put the person you’re replying to on Ignore because he’s just a troll. The goalposts will keep moving because the endless arguing is the entire point.
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There it is, right on time and using one of his three auto replies for all posts on LHer.
Little Max can dish it out but when asked to back it up
he picks up his marbles and goes home.
Thanks! I have reached the point of just ignoring him, but you beat me to it. He seems to have a burning desire to be right all the time and is obsessed with practicing one upmanship but seems to fail miserably and looks foolish to some. You’re right, trying to engage him in intelligent dialogue is an endless loop in futility and totally non-productive.
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Right, because you were incorrect about what you stated so blame someone else.
Makes perfect sense, but at least @max_g will add you to his CC list of auto replies.
Statefarm in Florida said once they turn 25 you will see a decrease.