I have been known in other threads to copy and paste a similar list
@Jon1988 my advice is give them a number, not a direction. way easier to do via email. Once you have MF and RV from edmunds, you can start targeting an exact number. you already have taxes etc.
There are a couple other deals here I used for 2019 reference points, but I don’t know what 2020 deals look like right now.
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Curious to know where you saw people here bragging about deals that don’t exist.
And the “game” you describe sounds an awful lot like lease hacking. Get only the miles you need. Use MSD. Don’t payment shop. Don’t directly compare one payment to another. Break it down into the components that make it a good or bad deal.
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100% agreed. A lot of people try to sneak up on the number they want by negotiating one line item at a time. Just tell them the deal you want.
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A lot of people try to sneak up on the number they want by negotiating one line item at a time. Just tell them the deal you want.
Honestly this isn’t really intuitive and I only learned it by negotiating shitty leases in the past. I have never gotten a dealership to concede one number (say, MF) and then move on to the next number. They will tell you to eff off.
The components are good and they’re important to know.
MSD does hack the deal down, but it ties up a ton of cash that can be used for investment and that risk/reward trade-off isn’t properly assessed by most people on here.
$6000 (a usual 10X MSD) invested for three years could gain someone $2600 in three years, assuming an average 12% return on a Vanguard S&P 500 mutual fund. That’s a trade off that people don’t factor into MSD hacking. $1400 if you assume 7%. That’s possibly adding $72/mo in loss - in a good economy.
As for the other stuff, that just comes from my impression of reading a lot of the comments on the forums here. It’s probably a bit flippant, but it’s my impression.
THIS is something I’m totally on board with. I’d imagine that being honest with them, and saying that I’ll definitely sign, should move them close to what I want. But this is just me projecting how I’d respond if I were in the saleswoman’s shoes.
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My personal approach is to predetermine exactly what I want, then contact the dealer and say “here is the deal I want:” and I break it down in excruciating details. Exactly the discount, exactly the rebates, exactly the mf it should be, all the fee assumptions, etc. I then tell them if they can do that deal, I’ll be in to the dealer in x amount of hours to sign. And if they agree, I shown up in x amount of hours to sign, with the email I sent and their agreement printed out.
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Yeah your argument falls apart right there. You cannot assume this at all.
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MSDs typically generate a guaranteed 10-20% annual return on investment with no capital gains.
There are exactly 0 mutual funds than can offer a guaranteed 10-20% annual ROI post-tax.
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Assume 7% if you want to be conservative, that’s $38.94/mo on a lease.
It’s also a perfectly reasonable assumption to assume 12%. 11.5% is the average yearly return over 30-years for an S&P 500 Vanguard fund.
All I’m saying is to weigh it against the discount you get from the MSD. You’re right, sometimes the MSDs are a better option, but sometimes they’re not. And that also has to be weighed against the lack of risk of an MSD with the risk of a 3-yr stock portfolio.
Great advice. I’m going to email the dealer back, prefacing the message with, “after doing a little more research, I’d like to be at…” Sounds like a pretty secure method.
I would recommend spending a lot more time determining the deal you want than you have thus far. No need to be in a hurry here and you don’t want to make an offer that’s out of the realm of realism.
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Yes, one’s personal risk tolerance needs to be evaluated. The world situation right now ought to be good example of what can happen, killing gains very rapidly. It also is a great time to not have capital tied up if your personal investing strategy is extremely risk tolerant.
Make sure when you’re looking at your presumed vanguard fund returns you take out the 15%+ capital gains.
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