So much finger pointing. Its almost as if its illegal to take responsibility for bettering one’s own life.
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you’re missing my point. 0% auto loans is what automakers do so folks like you and me, pay for those who won’t take responsibility for their own lives. if you knew interest expense was 3k for the 50% of americans who can’t afford the car, you raise the price of the car 6k for everyone else and offer 0% interest.
remember when romney lost the election because he said 49% of americans don’t pay taxes.
57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2021.
we subsidize other peoples errors and lack of personal responsibility.
It’s very hard to affect change when the majority of purchasing is driven by FOMO, demand and need.
I follow some of the more budget brands here and these cars should NOT be going over MSRP. Yet… as soon as an allocation comes in, even the lowest price cars move with ADM and I physically see it because it’s a local dealership where I can’t even sit in a car because it’s sold within a day.
And because salespeople take advantage of this “supply chain/market conditions”… people pay. You see it here on LH too… even “educated” buyers will pay markup on the budget brands.
And as much as people say it’s better to do the direct model like Tesla, Elon basically does the same thing and “marks up” prices on high demand models.
It’s just like the real estate market… much of pricing is driven by non-fundamental factors.
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We could just allow the state to dictate production and pricing, solves these problems.
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mate. the state has price gouging rules… because they are fair.
The us equity market has NBBO, because you can’t pay more than the asking price at the central exchange.
Mortgages have similiar laws, so you don’t have Shira law mortgages where it’s 0% interest, but you pay all the interest in the asking price of the house.
if we enjoy those protections already, why not use the same mechanisms to protect people in auto.
we’ve turned into people of media sound bites instead of thinking.
It is so hard to believe that not every consumer is razor focused on “the best deal” and some just want to buy what makes them happy, even if it costs more then it used too? This doesn’t make them criminals, nor the dealer who helps facilitate the transaction.
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good post, but not my intent.
i was trying to raise awareness of the harm of pricing and practices, by going back and trying to be a abuser to the people who abused innocent people.
There is no right or wrong here. No one is to blame for anything. What goes around, comes around. Some people paid way too much to play these past couple of years, but dealers are going to feel the pain as people go to trade in and they find they are stuck in their vehicles. It’s not like any dealer can take the high road in a competitive landscape.
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At least we agree the dealership model needs replacement.
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Markets always revert to the mean. Stocks, real estate, cars. Doesn’t matter. The only question is timing. when markets get out of wack on the low or the high end, they self correct eventually.
It’s never different this time. It’s always the same.
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Govt bureaucrats always know best. And they always have your best interest in mind. I trust them implicitly.
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And they spend like no tomorrow, because for them, there IS no tomorrow, and it’s not even THEIR money! Party party!
(since this is heading to Friday landfill) And who do the bureaucrats rely on to steal? The Technocrats! We have a whole cadre of ‘specialists’ who know everything, and cannot be questioned. I wonder who funds the Technocrats?..
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A few months ago I bought a newish used car that I know was overpriced. It was from a no haggle dealer that starts with car and ends with max. I figured it was at least $5k more than fair value. But, it was here here locally. It’s a fairly hard to find car outside the LAs and Miamis or other big cities. I live in a mid sized flyover city. I don’t have to buy from 1000 miles away and hope when it gets here it looks like it did in pics. It was immaculate in and out. It had an impressive build and the carfax showed meticulous maintenance records and had never been registered in “danger” areas prone to hurricanes or road salt. West coast car from birth. I couldn’t ask for more.
So while the hackr in me who will spend 10 hours to shave $100 from the price sweated as I signed the paperwork, the human side of me was like yeah baby this is mine now.
To paraphrase Tom Cruise in Risky Business, sometimes you just gotta say what the fuq and live a little.
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Are you performing a social experiment or are you for real? If it is the latter, then a few questions for you:
- How many dealerships do you plan to visit?
- What cars/models are you targeting?
- What if one dealer does agree to your request, what’s your plan? Buy the car on the spot?
Just to be clear on incentives - I am sure you are aware that there are certain incentives, such as lease cash, that are available to everyone.
We live in a free market economy. Manufacturers can offer whatever deals they want on cars. As a consumer, you are free to take your business elsewhere.
We can go down a rabbit hole about this. We can have a discussion about healthcare costs in America, but that’s a topic for another day.
Well, every adult is free to do their research and educate themselves. Let me use this forum as an example - Do you know how many times newbies come asking for help/advice on a deal, and then end up doing whatever they feel like anyway. That has nothing to do with media sound bites.
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Budget brand dealers(Chevy, GMC, Ford, Buick, Ram, Nissan, etc) around me all have advertised discounts. With a good amount of in-stock inventory. Even local luxury BMW/Benz stores have discounts off msrp, if you ask. They just don’t have much physical inventory still, mainly working off of orders. Market is completely different from 6 months ago.
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I guess it’s harder to find Toyotas and Hondas in SoCal.
Even talked to brokers and they all said Civics are hard to come by at MSRP. I was actually looking for one for a friend as they had hit several dealers locally. Pinged a few brokers here and same story.
But that was over a month ago… so maybe it’s starting to cool down.
We have a large Toyota just off the freeway and you can see their lot every time we drive by… mostly asphalt… very little metal.
There’s an element of stoploss that will be ongoing for a time. 
I really don’t believe the used car bubble has burst. Used cars above 30k seem to be sitting longer, but I haven’t seen any firesale prices. Surprising with the interest rates being quoted on vehicles over three years old
Just because dealers are not there yet doesn’t mean the bubble hasn’t burst.
Sellers and buyers are still far apart on real estate too, but it’s slowly trending towards the buyers.
The market doesn’t correct all at once, dealers will slowly have to start competing with each other on the way down.
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Just don’t forget that ‘free money’ buyers are gone and their credit is shot…so dealers are starting to see ‘deadbeat buyers’ who can’t get approved for new cars.
So
- More Stock coming in
- Less people with good credit or acceptable credit.
- Above MSRP is no longer king.
- Used Car lots having fire sales as floor plans are calling in 30-60-90 day lines.
So yes it’s heading down, slowly but definitely not at a snails pace.
Edit : Except for Hybrid / EVs, those are still slow.
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