Everything has been resolved, fairly. No more issue.
Everything has been resolved, fairly. No more issue.
Im yet to seena lease agreement that doesnt have a clause specifically stating you do not have the right to sell. Obviously i dont have your contract in front of me to highlight the clause.
People look for big sections that outline how a 3rd party buyout is calculated but there never is one because it says elsewhere you dont get to sell.
US Bank has been strange on their leases for quite some time. When I called for payouts they gave me a few different ones: 1) inclusive of tax if I bought it out myselfā¦ 2) sell to a 3rd party for a few thousand more than my payoff since itās a āwholesale price?ā, even though when I look online the retail prices are extremely close to what I oweā¦ and 3) If I sold to a 3rd party, but took out my new loan/lease with US Bank it was almost the same as my payoff.
From all the people I hear I knew US Bank was weird with their different lease terms, but when I leased my Passport (EX-L AWD) it was well below going through HFS or any other lender - I am only paying $350 with 15k miles a year and $0 DAS when all other lenders were over $500, as high as $575. It was the cheapest/biggest SUV I could get for that $350 threshold at the time so I went with it.
I donāt believe my next lease will be through them again because of this nonsense, unless the terms are crazy like they were almost 3 years ago. Thereās no equity in the vehicle even though I am way under mileage but Iām ok with it since I pay very little for a 40k truck.
Good luck and keep us updated!
What? Early term is an option as it is in your contract.
If lessees turn in their vehicle early, it automatically triggers the early termination clause in their lease contract. And, although the contract is silent regarding the fact that lessees will owe nothing in the event that the realized value exceeds their early term liability, it can be logically argued that, in fact, they do owe nothing.
Lessees should always consider all options such as: (1) turn-in and pay early term charges, (2) exercise their purchase option or (3) check to see if the bank allows 3rd party buyouts (e.g., dealer buyout (trade) or sales if you have positive equity). If you have a Nissan, for example, any Nissan dealer can buyout your vehicle if youāre interested in selling it or trading it. Selling or trading it to a non-Nissan dealer may not be allowed.
Not necessarily. The bank or dealer may not immediately know the realized value as it may depend on what theyāre able to fetch at auction. Realized value and the dealerās lease payoff to the bank are two entirely different things. If I trade my vehicle, the dealerās purchases it from the bank for $D (lease payoff). If I can negotiate a purchase price with the dealer of $(D+E), then I have equity in the amount of $E that I can use to purchase or lease my next vehicle or, the dealer can cut me a check for $E.
There is no greed involved nor is there any double dipping. Lessees MUST assume some responsibility. No one is forcing them to sign what they may perceive as a one-sided contract. KNOWLEDGE IS KING! Educate yourself about leasing before taking the plunge. In fact, I always make sure that Iām in full control and not the dealer or the fund provider. The game will be played but, on my turf, so to speak. Too many lessees allow the dealer to controlā¦ BAD IDEA!
There are several issue with this. Early on, it was probably the best thing to do as one would have plenty of equity in the vehicle to make it worth while. But take my situation. When I went to trade in my car, it had a wholesale value of 34k. (this is what CarMax offered me) Right around what it would have taken to buy my lease from US Bank. However, only 2 months later, I took the car into CarMax again and they were only offering 30k. Had I went and gotten a load for 34k, if US Bank then happened to drag their feet in getting everything done, and sent title 2 months later, I would have been STUCK for 4k.
Is US Bank so bad as to drag their feet for months? Are they deliberately killing the value of the car by delay tactics, to punish you for exercising buy out option? Or are they just plain incompetent and lack the staff to do paperwork?
In any event, I will just tell you what I did years back when I had a lease that I wanted to sell to a third party. No dealer would touch it, because it had 117K miles on it, so I sold it to private buyer while I was making lease payments. I didnāt want to buy the car and sit on it while putting it for sale. Long story short, a buyer came, inspected car, clearly understood that I was leasing it, gave me a certified check for 80% of the buy-back amount, I have added my own 20% to it and sent a check to Honda Finance for a title. I canāt control paperwork, so buyer waited until I got a title. When I got a title and lien release, I transferred ownership to buyer, who came and picked up the car. It took about one week back then, to get a lien release/title from Honda Finance. Just something to consider in future.
In addition, as far as the lease goes, no where in my lease does it say they will charge a higher amount if I try to trade it in. Had this been disclosed, I would NOT have gone with US Bank. I believe they have/had a duty to disclose this. Iāve lease a couple other cars in my life and while it was a long time ago, I do remember that I traded them in early. And that I called the leasing company, got the payoff, and that pay off was honored to the dealer I traded in the car with.
Plus, Iām not the only one who thinks these banks are violating the law. Here is a law firm looking for members to join a class actionā¦
I was going to say, if itās not disclosed in terms then there are grounds for legal action, consult attorney. I hate litigating stuff through courts, but I wouldnāt hesitate to take this one up if they were indeed deliberately and illegally stopping me from trading my car in, be demanding something that didnāt exist in a contract I have signed. I would say join the class action!
If you look at any of the leasing sites they specifically say never sign a US Bank lease.
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I agree, I donāt have the right to sell. And I donāt have the right to any equity in the vehicle. I donāt want either. But I do have a right to compare leases in a clear and easy to understand way. (This is what the TILA, CLA is all about) And I CANāT do that if I donāt know that one leasing company will make a 3rd party pay more than the lessorās buy out price and one will.
In my situation, I was basically blind sided as to the higher amount for trade in. What SHOULD have happened is that when I found out it would take 37k and not 34k to buy out my lease and called US Bank. They should have said, Hey, we think the car is worth 37k and not 34k and weāre not OK with you underselling our equity. However, since you only owe us 34k to buy it out and we feel we can get 37k, feel free to turn it into use now and weāll waive the balance due. (This is EXACLTY what I had the right to do ANYWAY, per the law and the contract.)
Yeah, they have discounts if you re up with US Bank via loans or lease. And discounts to certain dealers that push their leases/loans. Side Note: Best rate I could get on my new car was 6.5%. US Bank offered me the loyalty discount to 34k, not 37k which would have worked, except they were at 7.5%. I said, match the credit unionās rate and iāll reup with you. They said no.
It actually does not. Iām 99.9% sure US Bank will charge me the final 3 payments, plus the termination fee and say that is what I owe. Iām also 99.9% sure I will have a fight on my hands when I try to find out what the sold the car for. They only use early termination clause when there are alot of months left on the lease, that way they get more $$$.
I thought the same. Until I read Regulation M of the TILA, CLA, it specifically states the consumer has a RIGHT to an appraisal and then that appraisal will be used as the realized value.
I just think they are to big to care. They just (incorrectly) felt my car was worth 37k, when wholesale was actually 34k-35k. And they donāt have the time to worry about individual cases. In 3 months the value dropped to 30k-31, and I had 3 more months I could keep it, and put 7k miles in. The residual was 30k. So I donāt know what would happen over the next 3 months, but if the value dropped another 3k, they would be forced to take the car back with it being worth less the the residual. It actually would have been in their benefit to allow me to sell the car for 34k back in June as they would have made more money than they are now.
US Bank is smart in that they have an Arbitration clause in there agreements. So I have to settle my dispute through AAA. One thing working for me though, is that they have to pay and itās expensive. But I think they are willing to pay because 99% of the consumers wonāt take them to arbitration and paying for the ones that do is WAY cheaper then defending class actions.
Wish I had this advise prior to. I had 50k in their bank too. I closed my accounts and told them Iād never to business with them again. Unless they took the car, without me owing anything else and/or let me trade it for 34k. They didnāt care.
FALSE! First, they donāt charge you the remaining paymentsā¦ they charge you the remaining depreciation payments plus the residual value plus the termination fee + any excess wear/tear charges + applicable taxes + ā¦ as Iāve outlined for you in my post above IF the vehicle is NOT purchased. They donāt ONLY use the early term clause when there a lot of months remaining to get more money from you. Where does it say that in your lease contract? That makes no sense. How many months must remain until the early term clause kicks in? You canāt answer that because there is no such provision in your contract. I think what you mean to say is that your early term liability is much higher with many months remain as opposed to only a few months remaining. Either way, the early term clause is triggered. If you believe that youāll have to fight on your hands to find out what they sold the car for, then get an independent appraisal. Problem solved.
TRUE! The appraisal is done by an independent third party that must be agreed upon by the lessee and lessor. The appraisal is final and binding on both parties. What I said is that the realized value may not be immediately known. And, yes, you do have the right to secure an independent appraisal at your own expense as long as the lessor (US BANK) agrees to the selected third-party vendor doing the appraisal.
Again, it would behoove you to read your contract very carefully because youāre saying things that just arenāt accurate or true.
Theyāre not going to do that. They would be setting precedent if they did, and the flood gates would be open for a ton of lawsuits., legitimate or otherwise.
You can probably find a way to track by the VIN at auctions.
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Since you recognize and agree that you do not have a right to sell, then you recognize that you have the same contractually obligated 3rd party buyout value of ācan not sellā.
Arbitration has two main advantages for Defendant: a licensed attorney will decide the outcome of the claim (which is way less risky for defendant than an average John Doe the Juror off the street), and any monetary award given is likely to be limited to a specific, proven amount of your loss (as opposed to giving a million dollar judgment in your favor to punish the plaintiff beyond actual damage inflicted). Other than that, itās as effective in getting things straight as a court of law would be. Reading all the fine print on a contract, researching the law and regulations regulating that contract, then a case law and rulings on those laws and regulations to make a persuasive argument in your favor can be a pain. Wish you good luck.
Well, I havenāt gotten my final bill yet, so I canāt say with certainty you are wrong. However, when I do, Iāll make sure to come here and tell you if I was right or wrong. Then you can admit to being wrong. 
First, YOU arenāt calculating the early termination correctly. There is a termination fee AND an early termination fee. Maybe you have a different agreement, IDK. Technically, in my US BANK lease, they donāt have a section for over mileage limits and/or excessive wear and tear. Although, for sake of argument, if they happened, Iām sure they would add that as a charge. (maybe they stick it under #5 in my agreement) Also note, Iāve been ignoring the depreciation in the payments, as its almost nothing with 3 payments remaining, but yes, I agree, the remaining payments are depreciated.
So, in my case, I would have:
1.) Termination Fee: $395
2.) Early Termination Administrative Charge: $404
3.) Unpaid Amounts (due or past due under this lease): $0
4.) Any official fees, taxes, and other charges related to early termination: $0
5.) Expenses related to recovering, obtaining, storing, preparing for sale and selling the vehicle: $0
6.) Lease Balance: $1200
Now, the final two steps would be to add residual, minus realized value. But to explain to you what US BANK is telling me and why I do not believe they will use the above formula, Iām going to stop right here a second and add these up. So I would have just about $2000 in charges.
Now, if I just KEPT the lease for three more months and just paid the payments. What would my liability be? $1200 (3 payments) + Termination fee $395, $1600.
So I would be better off keeping the car, right? YES.
So, I called US BANK and talked to them extensively about this. I said, can I just pay you what I would owe to finish out the lease and turn the car in now. IE: I will pay you, in advance, the $1200 (final payments) and then am willing to just give you the car early. In effect waiving my rental rights for the final 3 months. Over and over, US Bank assures me THAT IS WHAT THEY DO when people turn in a lease so close to it being over. They do NOT do the early termination charges, because those charges would be greater than what I would pay just riding out my lease. That makes sense, for two reasons. First, US BANK can do what I just did above and say to the customer, look, we are charging you the lessor amount. Which would also be their legal duty. They have to mitigate damages.
But, in actuality, if you completed calculations on the Early Termination Clause, the customer could end up owing US Bank nothing. (if RV > Residual + above fees) But US Bank would rather collect something, so that now makes even more sense for US Bank to charge me the lease balance, because NOW THEY ACTUALLY GET TO COLLECT SOME MONEY. This is also why I made the statement above, that I think if we were able to look into US Banks practices, they do this to customers all the time. Example: āHey, you turned in your lease 2 months early, we are going to do you a solid and only charge you the two months and your termination fee, thus saving you money.ā Then turn around and sell the car for enough to cover the early termination charges and not bother to tell the customer. THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS HAPPENING! Iāll find out as soon as I get that final bill. We will see who is correct.
I actually hope I am wrong and you are right and they do all the calculations on the Early Termination clause, and they sell it for greater than my liability. Would definitely save me some time in settlement negotiations.
That is what you said, and Iām saying you are INCORRECT, if the customer chooses to have the appraisal done. Iām saying in that case, the realized value IS IMMEDIATELY KNOW.
Lease Agreement:
Within 10 days of early termination, you may obtain, at your own expense, from an independent third party agreeable to both you and us, a professional appraisal of the wholesale value of the vehicle that could be realized at sale. The appraised value shall then be used as the Realized Value.
Law:
The appraisal shall be final and binding on the parties