Signed and lesson learned: 2020 BMW 330i loaner - 45k MSRP - $323 incl. tax - 36/10k - $4262 DAS incl. MSDs

Did I misread something, or did the OP also make a $2500 down payment?

No, $766.84 if his BMWFS incentive was $1750 (see 9.A-1)ā€¦but yes, the ā€œ1% ruleā€ sucks for this reason and many many others.

$1462 DAS amount excluding MSDs

Oh, is this why incentives are taxed (b/c conceptually itā€™s as if the manufacturer gave you taxable ā€œincomeā€ that was used to reduce cap cost)?

Thanks for clarifying, @chrishs2000 and @mllcb42.

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Yep, forgot about his $766 down. Still, under $400/mo all in

yeah it seems itā€™s really weird thenā€¦ the vehicle does come with a license plate, I guess thatā€™s b/c itā€™s a loaner, cuz all other used cars posted on their website have license plates.

I donā€™t know if thatā€™s the reason why the fees is so cheap, but would like to post here so that people can set correct expectations when they are trying to lease a loaner, at lease in Nor-Cal.

Thanks for chiming in, @Dwight047 and @Jon! I didnā€™t know that before and thanks for sharing!

One extra point though, Iā€™ve posted the calculator link and no matter itā€™s pre-MSD or post-MSD the monthly amt doesnā€™t exceed $350ā€¦ I guess they just somehow messed it up.

Thanks for the reply, @Ursus! yeah the total lease cost is not too bad, but it really sucks to see how I got played by the dealers and to see them lying to my face. I repeatedly asked about 0-down and using the base MF, and they confirmed no less than 3 times, even put something down in written like ā€œMF: .00142ā€. But in the end I found them still using .00172. Thatā€™s really terrible.

Why didnā€™t you say something when the numbers didnā€™t match your calculations instead of signing?

@leaserookie You got almost 21% off, you should almost always expect to have the MF marked up. They gotta make some $$ some how. In the end you got a good deal. Enjoy in good health!

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IIRC, the plate is tied to the car in CA, not the person like in some other states, so it makes sense the car had a plate already if it was in a loaner state/being used.

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Donā€™t beat yourself up too bad. The entire sales process is designed to extract as much profit from every car sold if at all possible. Depending on the dealer Iā€™ve seen them add 1/100th to the MF in an attempt to make SOMETHING on a deal. Just review the mistakes youā€™ve made and do better next time. Itā€™s helpful to complete as much of the deal as possible to give yourself enough time to properly review. Hell, half the time the salespeople donā€™t even know how leases work!

I almost closed a deal on a CPO 2017 Honda CR-V and I gave up on the dealership when they tried passing on the vehicle inventory tax and high doc fee after a week of negotiations. They lost a $25k sale over $150.

On the flip side, you walked away from a deal over 150 bucks? On a 25k sale, 150 bucks is a blip on the radar. I totally understand wanting to save moneyā€¦but 150 bucks, or .006% of sales price?

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Iā€™m surprised to see your response on a forum driven by finding the absolute best price and highlighting dealership antics and deception. Especially in this thread about how easy it is to get tripped up in the car buying game even going into it somewhat informed.

I donā€™t have to buy a car if the dealā€™s not right and the vehicle is in abundance locally. I refuse to play the ā€œpay our fees or elseā€ game so I walked. Just as I would advise anyone here to do the same. The vehicle inventory tax specifically is a 0.02% tax levied on dealership inventory every year and I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to pass that cost onto consumers. Similar to marking up money factor, artificially inflating prices with ā€œprotection packagesā€ and vin etching. Itā€™s all part of the game and I wasnā€™t willing to play.

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Who cares about marking up MF if the deal is right. If someone is offering you 23% off a BMW in lieu of an inflated MF, who cares. Youā€™re still getting a deal. Letā€™s not forget, dealerships ARE in the business to make money. If the discount on the front end is good enough to offset the MF markup on the back end, why does it matter if itā€™s marked up. You canā€™t have it both ways, and I assure you, unless they are absolutely desperate to move a car, that discount WILL go down if you demand buy rate.

Iā€™m all for getting a good, fair price, but you have to draw the line somewhere, or youā€™ll never be satisfied. 150 bucks is not worth quibbling over or walking if the rest of the deal makes sense, and the car fits the bill, inventory tax or not. Weā€™re talking about 4 bucks a month over 3 years. FOUR DOLLARS!

At some point, you have to decide if walking away and continuing the fight vs taking what is available, which, by all intents and purposes is a good deal. 150 bucks over the term of the lease/purchase isnā€™t worth it to me to continue.

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I care. This forum cares. Whatā€™s one of the first things someone asks on here when a signed deal is posted?

  • Can we see specifics of the deal and a breakdown of MF and residual?
  • What was MSRP and what did you negotiate down to? Was it at least 10% off?
  • How much did you put down? (DAS)

The deal isnā€™t right if the MF is marked up. As a consumer who has spent a lifetime building a tier 1 credit score I donā€™t think itā€™s fair that Iā€™m charged anything less than the absolute best rate that I qualify for. Why would I settle for less especially over a multi-year term?

How does one determine a fair price exactly? The consumer available resources to help us determine vehicle value are inaccurate at best if not completely useless and completely ignored by the dealership industry. Dealers have access to tools that tell them what a similar car sold for at auction, what similar cars are selling for nationwide, etc. They will not tell you how much they are into a car for so how, as a consumer, should I expect to know when Iā€™m getting a fair price? There is too much information missing in the equation.

Sorry if I donā€™t shed a tear for the plight of car sales but theyā€™ve dug their own grave. I did draw the line, set expectations, and took my business elsewhere. Sounds like we approach car buying differently. Iā€™m not looking for a good deal - Iā€™m looking for the best deal.

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If the discount compensates for it, who is to say the deal isnā€™t right? Plenty on here would agree with me.

Because the discount on the car compensates for it. If they give me 50% off a 50k car, but a 12% interest rate, and 25% off with 1.2%, Iā€™ll take the 12% interest rate all day long, regardless of having an 800 score.

I got news for youā€¦someone doing the exact same thing private party isnā€™t going to tell you how much theyā€™re into a car either. That will greatly diminish their opportunity to get as much profit as they can out of that car. This isnā€™t a dealer problemā€¦itā€™s a capitalism problem. Both dealer and private party have all the right in the world to get as much out of that car as they possibly can. Neither is going to give you a hint as to what that is for them.

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Speak for yourself. Some posters may care, some may not.

Probably not, actually, since the average buyer isnā€™t trying to get a max discount and lowest MF.

Thereā€™s nothing wrong w/ you wanting the best dealā€¦ And thereā€™s nothing wrong w/ the dealership telling you that they arenā€™t going to give it to you.

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This is nothing but vanity. And vanity surrounding something like credit scores ā€¦SMH. Scores are pointless as long as you qualify for Tier 1. Doesnā€™t matter if your score is 840 or 710.

Would you take a $600 payment with 0 MF markup or a $500 with max MF markup? Same DAS

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1-The-Devils-Advocate-quotes

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