Any update from op?
Imo, it’s mandatory to know them. It just isn’t always mandatory to use them as your negotiaing language.
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OP was asked by @IAC what vehicle. Have yet to get a response from OP. That might also help narrow down a plan of attack.
I always find this funny. On one hand, dealers/salespeople eat crayons and glue for fun in between cigarette/Monster breaks but are also Ph.D.-level psychologists who mastered the art of manipulation. Most salespeople are normal people trying to make a living. It isn’t much deeper than that.
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I sentence you to spend one hour at a domestic store!
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I will have to talk to my manager, but we typically don’t do dealer trades.
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Maybe you have answered this in the past and you may have more autonomy given your level of product and clientele, but how much leeway does an individual salesperson have as far as structuring deals? I think that perception tends to come from the standard dealership experience where you wait around while the sales guy talks to the manager, comes back with gradually better deals…so on and so forth.
My experience across a number of brands has been salespeople with very little knowledge about the leasing programs and just do the usual ‘let me talk to my manager’ routine. It has almost never been worth the effort to explain how a deal could be done to get to my price…I just search for the deal I know is achievable and leave it to them to decide if it makes sense for them to do, or not.
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This varies dealer to dealer and even differs between salespeople at the same dealership.
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It varies from dealer to dealer and even salesperson to salesperson. The first dealer I worked at was Audi. I had a sheet for a percentage off MSRP for internet leads who were shopping (i.e. Truecar) for popular models. But I could not use that for negotiating and the desk still had to confirm final numbers, leases, financing, etc. And while I had access to leasing programs, I would be fired if I ever quoted someone a lease by myself.
When I worked at BMW, the desk controlled everything. Even if the person wanted to pay MSRP and not negotiate, I still needed to ask the desk (managers). We even had a program for online buying (it was MSRP and max rate) and if I ever used that, I would also be fired.
So the process generally at BMW/Audi was: get the first pencil from the desk, get an offer from the customer, second pencil, etc until the customer said yes or management TO’d. It didn’t matter what the programs were since my only job was to get a commitment to purchase. I still knew the programs, but it was irrelevant in the grand scheme. And if the manager was busy, I had to wait.
It comes down to the fact that the manager’s role is to make money for the store and the salesperson’s role is to get offers. The salesperson does not need to know all the intricacies of the deal. Pick out a car, get an offer, and let the desk take care of the rest.
I have more leeway at the two Porsches dealers I have worked at. That is mostly because almost everyone is a vet so the managers don’t need to micromanage. There is one salesperson who can make any deal they want, but that is a unique circumstance. But if someone said, give me $2000 off a new Panamera, I can make that deal without asking. If someone wants one for invoice, I can’t.
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Depends on which saleseman you are talking about. There are morons as well as good ones among dealers, just as in any trade I would assume. As the poster above stated, most of them are morons while 25% are pros. The ones who think they are PhDs in psychology, who bring you to dealership to waste your time and play stupid mind games are morons.
It is possible for a store to have processes designed to manipulate the customer and still only have front line staff only equipped to fog spoons.
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100%. Plenty of dealer principles and upper management/C-suite screw sales staff and customers equally. There is a used car dealer that doesn’t pay their salespeople anything for selling a car. They only get paid if they sell an “appearance” package that costs a few hundred dollars for $2000. I am just saying that in my experience, the sales staff and sales managers aren’t engaging in psychological warfare described here.
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Honey > Salt
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I think there are institutional behaviors that get engaged in that are that though. 4 squares, the back and forth with the desk taking the long way, “you have to come in to talk numbers”, etc, are all tactics designed in the dealer’s facor.
At least we don’t throw your trade keys up on the roof anymore. 
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The PD that has to come and try to mediate this every single day/week with customers/dealer also thank you.
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GSM hides it in his rectum instead.
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I want to ask how you know this, but I’m leave it our our rectal experts @drdvrgs @li8625 in the meme lounge
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