I don’t know if they really had to ‘desk check’, versus they knew all along and just tried to pull fast one (you are all excited, on your way to pick up the car, so , they thought, you would agree to bait and switch tactics they used and sign it on whatever terms they presented to you at the last moment).
That is an awful situation all around. I wonder if that’s their mo though?
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Many dealers try to avoid email because it puts what they say in writing. They’ll still deny they said it and not honor what they told you it’s just harder than when your only contact is over the phone and they can claim they never said that or you misunderstood. As many have said, know exactly what you want, exactly the deal you want and find the rare good salespeople that will work with you and keep going back to them. It’s sad how terrible buying a car can be because the dealerships are so awful. It’s why Tesla threatens them, say what you want about EVs or Tesla quality but buying a Tesla is much much easier. Go online, order it, pay for it, pick it up.
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MOST dealers I dealt with honored what they said over the phone when I closed deal over the phone. I would apply for credit and go to sign, and they would have on the table what they said over the phone. Very rarely I had dealers silly enough to bait and switch upon my arrival (may be once in so many years), and if they did it I would just seriously threaten to walk out (never bluffing on it).
Going back to the same dealer rarely if ever works. Great deal depends not only on a great salesperson (which is always necessary part of equation), but also on time of month, year, how pressed is the dealership to move the stock on the lot and etc.
I don’t like the idea of one price for all like in Fitzgerald’s. I have to pay extra so some fool who doesn’t want to do homework, research market and invest time on finding a great deal can end up paying the same amount I do. I don’t want to subsidize laziness or financial negligence of others.
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Going in person to a dealer isn’t necessarily a no-no, you just need to be aware of their numerous tricks and not succumb to their high pressure tactics to make you buy something the same day, before you have time to regret your purchase. Going to dealer allows you to test drive a car and build a rapport with a salesperson, get questions answered, do research on a model, etc. You can also get a good idea of what that particular dealer is willing to charge for the car you are interested in and how relaxed or how sleazy a particular dealership is. Do this with multiple dealers to get a real feel for what the market prices are like (of course you will need to be in a location where there are multiple dealers). The important thing to know when going in person to a dealer is to exercise self-control and know how to escape if and when the high pressure tactics start coming on. If you are getting the run around or don’t feel comfortable anymore, you can always leave, you don’t owe them anything!
My usual strategy when visiting dealers in person is to tell the salesperson that I am just researching different cars models and brands at the moment and haven’t decided which one I want. They will be happy to let you test drive, an important way to know if you really like a car. Sooner or later they’ll ask if you want pricing info, or you can ask them if you are ready to deal with pricing. Typically the salesperson will then disappear for what seems like forever and eventually come back with a piece of paper from the finance dept with some numbers on it. Unless it’s a really strong offer, I don’t negotiate at this point and instead close the conversation. I thank the salesperson and tell them I need to go look at some other cars (you can name some other brands since they will probably ask you what else you are looking at). At this point the salesperson will either give you his card and ask you to call him if you have any questions or want to discuss more price options. Thank them and say goodbye. Some salespeople will pressure you into accepting an offer on the spot or bring over the finance manager to haggle further. A typical question they ask is “What would it take for you to buy this car today?” If you hear that question or encounter other high pressure tactics, run for the hills! Tell them you are just doing research and not ready to buy. Take their card and walk out. Once you have done this at one or more dealers you will have some idea of what prices are like and can negotiate further by phone or email with the salesperson. Try and avoid dealing with the finance dept in person as they are sharks and are trained to rake you over the coals while in captivity. If you are ever in a position where you really want to leave, just tell them you have a headache and you can’t think properly so you’ll come back tomorrow. This is a sure fire way to escape the dealership when things get sticky and uncomfortable.
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Pressure tactics never worked on me. I am by nature very soft person and I always treat those I buy a product or service from with kindness. I don’t like people who go to a restaurant and treat waiter like a cr@p. Dealer is a human, a worker, and is there to make a living. So, rather than being aggressive and go on power trip (I am the one paying you here, be my slave!), my natural inclination is to treat them with empathy. This being said, I have my red lines and when those are crossed I can become very nasty person. I will treat dealer (anyone) very aggressively if they misread my good faith and empathy and take it for weakness. I will not hesitate to walk out if dealer exercises even a bit of pressure tactics, I can do so without even saying that I am leaving (simply stand up and go), or if I notice sleazy, stupid game playing on their part (sitting you at the desk, watching you for an hour while there is no traffic, no customers to serve other than you, and I have seen this at “hot car” Mercedes dealership recently, where there was no single soul other than myself sitting at the desk and waiting for the ‘pencil’ offer).
Having tried all the different ways to work with dealerships over a span of 20+ years, I came to conclusion that going from dealer to dealer is a great waste of the time. It’s ego trip for most of them who ‘feel in control’ of situation when you are there, and I have no intention to give them a satisfaction of experience (we brought him in, wasted half his day and sent him to pound the dust, haha). I no longer do that, except in a very rare instance where I go with deliberate intention to just meet the salesrep and nothing else. I would never walk into dealership with set mind to drive off with their car, unless I closed the deal and had final numbers worked over the phone.
I think if someone has plenty of time and doesn’t mind spending the weekend visiting different dealerships that will play their usual ‘mind games’ , then going in person to shop around might be an option. But be prepared to deal with morons who will think they are PhD’s in psychology and attempt to play those notorious, futile mind games with you while there.
I almost always close my deals over the phone, apply for cred as a last step and only then go to dealership to sign papers and drive the car off their lot.
My 2 cents.
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I agree, but to have the audacity to go to the extreme to pull credit on false pretenses is not only unethical but illegal. There’s two sales managers here, one who did this ghost deal and the other one is a complete moron who insisted that Volvo doesn’t do MSD, and even insisted that he called and verified with VCFS.
Sure is. Next Volvo dealer is 6 hours away so they know most people aren’t going anywhere else.
Yes, this an obvious “no go”. In my experience when they are so stupid as to make illegal move and it’s documented (as in your case), a quick escalation to upper management/ownership and BBB complaint will bring a swift resolution. And I think you took all the right steps there.
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OP seems to have abandoned ship here lol
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Something I dream of a salesperson being candid and saying: “I won’t waste your time, and I will give you my best offer right away. No need to negotiate anything”. Similar to Tesla.
It would leave some dignity to the customer, and more self-respect to the salesperson themselves, who look like helpless gophers running and hiding under their manager’s skirt at every interaction (I mean, if no decision can be made, what is their role in the entire process, anyway?).
It’s a ballet which, unfortunately, is not fun for either dancer.
I am just dreaming, of course.
This exists at most high volume stores.
By the way, I have contacted multiple Mercedes stores and some Porsche’s. There was noticeable difference between two. There was a post by former Porsche dealer here about his past experience working with that brand, and I came to realize that most of what he said about Porsche dealerships in general is accurate. Sales reps at Porsche are not clueless bots like those at Mercedes. They do have their limits as to how much discount they can offer, and they know the RV and MF on the selected cars off the bat. Only if you ask for more discount than what they know they are authorized to give will they go to GM and have GM reach out to you directly. Overall, much better experience than with Mercedes, there is no cloud of mystery, no sleazy dealer tactics and you can negotiate your final price in a matter of a day or two (then it’s up to you if you take it or leave it). This was probably the best experience I had dealing with any brand so far.
I hear you about “one best price for all” like in Tesla. Problem I see with it is that you will be paying premium to save time and effort of those buyers who don’t either know the market for the car, or don’t want to spend any time to negotiate a deal. That statistical average of “best price we can give all” model has its price, but I certainly see how that model could be attractive to most people who would want to shop for a car the same way they get the grocery or apparel from the local stores. Walk in, see the price, buy or leave. Fitzgerald was using this model for years (as far as I remember seeing them around the block), but I have never leased/bought a car from them. If all dealerships were operating like Fitz, a lot of people would be paying less for a car than they currently do, but I would certainly be paying a premium to get a car of my own.
Thank you so much, @Eric51 for such an insightful, meaningful, logical and realistic analysis (much better than my dream!), and for taking the time to share your personal experience.
Your post has greatly helped me rationalize the entire dealership business.
One has to look at things from a broader perspective to appreciate the challenges, no doubt.
And the question about “one size fits all” vs. a customized product is something I completely overlooked. After all, a car is something with a stornger emotional attachment than many other objects, and personalization is a major defining feature.
Thanks again for a most pleasant conversation.
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Hundreds of dealerships do that. Most, if not all, dealerships under the nation’s biggest dealership holding company do that.
So that option definitely exists.
Personally I choose to negotiate with the other business model.
The choice is yours.
oh come on that’s crap. I desk about a dozen cars a day and don’t know every RV and MF.
You think a brand that has 23 types of just 911’s all with different RV’s and MFs is going to have sales people that memorize every MF and RV?
On top of that they have 10 types of cayman, 24 types of panamera, 10 varieties of taycan, 4 mecans and 11 trims of cayenne all with different RVs and MFs?
That is 82 different models of vehicle all with different rvs and mfs not to mention some might change with trim level and YOUR expectation is they remember them all?
Get out of here with that
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You’re asking for trouble…
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I do, then I politely ask the customer to leave or go look at the car some more/drive it again so I can help the next one. I cannot afford a customer sitting at my desk for more than 30 minutes
Then the customer says, “That is a great starting point. Let’s see if we can do better than that”.
It is a complete waste of time and an unintentional lie. If my “best price” is $10/mo from where you want to be, we will do the deal. And it closes off any further negotiations because as a salesperson I either stick by “this is our best price” and maybe lose a deal, or become a liar if we move off that number at all.
PFS does make it easy since the MF is the same on all cars (unless they have a promotion but I haven’t seen a discounted MF in 2+ years). But other than the base Macan and Cayenne, I have to lookup the RVs and make sure they are under MRM. Nothing worse than being 1% off on a $150k car and MRM is $140k.