Tried local cops, but due to Covid, they sent me to CHP, who wanted an appointment 2 weeks later. Just toughed it out at DMV, and it was done in a half hour, had to train the kid how to fill out the form.
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Iâm part of a 4XE FB group and I keep seeing a ton of people post about having a lot of issues in the cold. Batteries dying, car not starting, electric mode constantly being unavailable. I understand range issues are a thing in the cold but the other stuff seems weird, like jeep should address it?
Has anyone here kept one long enough to report any issues they have had in the cold?
I mean itâs only month 2 here but itâs been perfectly fine. Keep in mind that those FB groups (and forums) will have a higher percentage of complaints than what is realistically happening in the outside world.
That said, there seems to have for sure been issues with earlier builds of these things. Seems to have been thru late spring 2021. Some polls and threads on the 4xe forums would seem to confirm that.
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Ahh gotcha! Thanks for the input. I know it hasnât been too cold here yet for us so I wanted to ask. A lot of the complaints from people seem to be down in the single digit weather
I still think your 4xe is my favorite one Iâve come across yet haha
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A lot of people donât understand how phevs work.
People get mad that the vehicle doesnât behave how they think it should behave.
I had one guy on the FB group yesterday try to tell me that it was ridiculous that the motor would have to come on to support the hvac load because no one uses the heater when itâs -15 degrees out.
Letâs not even get started on peopleâs misunderstanding on what max regen does.
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Gotta love that guy on the jl forums who went out of his way to make a thread about how the 4xe wonât work for him in the tundra and therefore it was a piece of junk.
I donât know why I even tried to respond to that guy.
Was like banging my head against the wall.
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Up here in MA, I have had the âelectric mode unavailableâ come up quite a bit recently. Admittedly, I donât necessarily understand how âphevâs workâ mechanically, but I figured it was related to the cold temps (heating load in the cabin & maintaining engine temp). I have tried running the car with no heat on, but that doesnât seem to matter. As long as you step on the gas even one time heavy enough to have the gas engine kick in, it wonât go back to all electric mode and the âelectric mode unavailableâ error displays.
I searched thru the JL forums and it also seems that it could be related to the Fuel & Oil refresh mode, which engages gas-only mode when the 4xe detects that you may have stale gas.
This has only happened the last 5-6 times Iâve driven it, so I havenât figured out if itâs something Iâll have to live with when itâs below 30 degrees.
Oddly, Iâve driven in the same conditions for like 20 miles with the heat on and as long as I donât push the motor enough to kick into hybrid, it seems to stay all-electric.
Thereâs a good chance itâs due to fuel and oil refresh as you pointed out.
This is the worst piece of advice going around the forums right now. Do not do this.
Iâll hop on my computer in a minute and type up some more detailed information as to why. Too much to type on my phone.
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Iâll delete my comment as to not spread further⌠Looking forward to your explanation.
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@mllcb42 I also just found your post from earlier in the month. Thanks!
Just for kicks, I did EquityHackr and called CCAP for a buyout. $48,850 buyout, EquitHackr offered me $50,092 on my $61,455 2021 Sahara 4xe.
Mineâs a keeper, but not good numbers IMO.
50k is a terrible. Can prolly get 56-58k from carmax all day.
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Alright, much easier to type on the computer vs my phone and this will probably turn into a long diatribe. If you have specific questions about anything Iâve written or want me to dive into other aspects, let me know.
As a primer, letâs start with what the 4xe hybrid system actually is. Itâs important to understand what it is and what the different modes are to see why itâs designed to behave the way it does in regards to electric-only mode in cold temperatures and FORM (Fuel Oil Refresh Mode).
First and foremost, the 4xe is a series-parallel hybrid vehicle. This means that both the electric motor and the ICE (internal combustion engine) are directly connected to the drive train and can be ran with both power supplies concurrently (as a parallel hybrid) or off of just the electric drive train (as a series hybrid). This is different from a normal âmildâ hybrid that always has to have the ICE running. What it isnât is an EV with a dedicated EV mode. Every drive mode (electric, hybrid, e-save hold, e-save charge) is a hybrid drive mode. There is no âonly gasâ or âonly electricâ mode. All the mode changes do is change the demand requirements for when the vehicle augments one power supply with the other. In every mode, in any moment, both the electric and ICE power supplies may be called on to provide power, depending on the circumstances.
That has a couple of consequences to the operation of the vehicle in cold weather. On the electric side of things, battery systems suck when theyâre cold. They take a big efficiency hit. They really like to operate around the same temperatures that people like to operate as a byproduct of the physics of battery chemistry. The 4xe will try to condition the battery to get its temperature up, and that is often more efficiently done using the ICE. Also, cold weather means increased demand on the HVAC system. The 4xe has two heaters; an electric heater and a traditional heater fed by the ICE. The electric heater is insufficient to fully heat the vehicle in very cold weather by itself, by design. Putting a higher wattage heater in would be counter productive to electric efficiency and the ICE is much better at doing that job.
On the ICE side, the cold weather has a few effects as well, especially in a PHEV. The catalytic convertor doesnât do its job very well unless itâs at temperature, so it needs to be heated up. Youâll find that there are times when you first start the vehicle in the cold when the ICE runs at a higher RPM than it seems like it should and under some load. This is pre-heating the cat.
PHEVs also have an inherent issue with oil dilution due to fuel making it past the piston rings. As an engine heats up, the piston rings expand helping better seal the combustion chamber. During cold starts, however, it is common for some unburnt fuel to make its way past the piston rings and into the oil in the bottom of the engine. This happens on all ICE powerplants, however, PHEVs that run in electric with occasional ICE augmentation see lots of cold starts, adding more fuel to the oil. In a normal situation, once the oil gets sufficiently hot, the fuel in the oil evaporates, and makes its way out as vapor through the crank case ventilation system. PHEVs, particularly in cold weather, donât get the oil sufficiently hot, so they can build up fuel in the oil. More fuel going in due to more cold starts and less fuel going out due to hot oil results in high oil fuel levels, which can make the oil lose its lubricity and result in accelerated engine wear.
Jeepâs solution to this last problem is part of what occurs in Fuel Oil Refresh Mode. This is really a bit of a misnomer since Fuel Oil Refresh Mode is actually two distinct things, a Fuel Refresh Mode and an Oil Refresh Mode. They should have had the system be more clear as to which is which.
The fuel side of things is fairly simple. When the gas in the gas tank has been sitting for a long period of time due to the engine running primarily in electric, the 4xe wants to burn some of it off and replace it with fresh gas. Itâs supposed to look for 4 gallons of new gas to be added to trigger this, although itâs often easier to just run the tank down until the light comes on and fill up.
The oil side of things isnât quite so simple. It looks at a number of different inputs to determine if the fuel as been cleared out of the oil or not. Mainly, itâs looking for the engine to be ran for at least 20 minutes with the oil temperature fully heated up (210ish F). For many people in cold climates, the oil doesnât ever fully heat up during day to day driving, so they get stuck in this mode for a long period of time. When in FORM, the vehicle will not let you run in electric only mode because it doesnât want to risk the engine performing more cold starts, compounding the issue, until it has resolved the fuel already in the oil (and the oil at risk of damaging the ice).
On the forums, many people have recommended resetting the oil indicator to bypass FORM. In essence, what youâre doing is telling the vehicle âI have removed all of the contaminated oil from the vehicleâ. It will now behave as if the oil that is in the engine is free of fuel dilution and allow it to behave as if the oil is fully capable of handling some fuel absorption and has no lubricity issues. Basically, itâll let things build up until it thinks itâs too compromised and needs to be burned off again. If you donât actually change the oil, youâre letting it run potentially compromised oil AND further build up more fuel in the oil. This is a recipe for catastrophic engine damage. Will it happen if you do it once? No, probably not. If you keep doing it over and over, however, youâre going to end up with major issues.
When youâre in FORM, youâll automatically be told no electric only mode. The other reasons youâll be told no electric only mode is the batteries are too cold and need to be brought up to temp, the cat needs heated up, youâre requesting more out of the hvac system than the electric only can supply, etc.
There are some major misconceptions about what âno electric only modeâ means as well. This does not mean that the electric drivetrain has turned into a boat anchor and youâre running on only the ICE. The 4xe will still behave like a mild hybrid, with the electric motor augmenting the ICE as needed, it just wonât run on just the electric motor.
Now, there are some people out there that are having issues with the coolant systems on the batteries that seem to be compounding some of these problems. Those are legitimate issues that need to be addressed, but most of the complaints Iâve been seeing are ridiculous cases of people in -50C weather, wondering why they canât run in electric only, as if thatâs even a good thing to do with how much battery range tanks in that weather.
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Awesome explanation. Thank you!
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Thatâs very helpful @mllcb42 thanks, especially since a GC 4xe is on our short list for RDx replacements and it would be our first vehicle with an electric powertrain.
Just remember, the 4xe is not an EV. Itâs a hybrid and is always in a hybrid mode.
This is a great explanation. You should get this stickyâd to the top of the various 4xe forums.
With that said, I had attempted all of the requirements to get past this for about a week. It wasnât even cold, temps in 50âs to 60âs and a few longish road trips even after allowing the 4xe to idle for an extending period of time. Iâll certainly be more cautious with my âsolutionâ next time this occurs though. Thanks again.
Yeah, probably should have just said first vehicle that isnât 100% reliant upon an ICE.