GM CEO announces thousands of job cuts, factory closures & more


#62

#63

I think the CAFE standard when combined with the lack of investment in smaller engines and general move away from sedans all led them to take this actions. The problem with shrinking is they still need to do a ton of expensive research into electric vehicles. You need to be able to spread that research out over a large number of vehicles. Shrinking while conducting expensive research is a risky proposition.

I also think the political fallout could matter. Without doing a deep dive, I’d predict the states GM is strongest in are disproportionatly states where Trump is more popular. Logic being GM’s strength is trucks and trucks are more popular in red States/less densely populated areas (see link below). If Trump starts ralling against GM, it is a problem since the last 12 months have showed us that a large minority of the population views the Presidents endorsement or objection very credibly.


#64

GM forgot how to design cars decades ago. They have been pumping out absolute trash for almost as long as I have been alive. The bowtie on a car now means, budget vehicle, or “I cant even afford a Honda”. Ford really turned their designs around, and I was rather surprised they axed all their passenger cars, but I am not surprised GM is following suit.


#65

GM sold 107,000 Traverses through October. Base price is 30, all the way up to 50k. Has the definition of budget changed recently :thinking:


#66

Most Chevys are more expensive than their Honda counterparts, with the Equinox and Traverse being much more expensive. Someone clearly hasn’t looked at Chevy recently


#67

But but but but but Chevy always does so well in the totally-a-real-thing J.D. Power U.S. Initial Quality Study. How can they possibly be recognized as poor quality?


#68

Dising on Chevy for quality, but 7 series BMW’s and S class Mercedes are high quality? See how reliable those are in a few years. They cost a heck of a lot more to repair and maintain than any domestic. I have friends and family with Fords and Chevys with 200k miles on them without issues, just maintenance. BMW n20/n26 engines (4 cylinder) timing chain failure (blown engine) are better than GM or Ford? X5 , 5 series sunroof failure ($2500 to $5000) good? There are many German car screw ups.


#69

Good and well but Chevy wasn’t in competition with the Germans, they were battling Honda and Toyota. Twenty years of low quality from 1985 to 2005 cost them all their good will. Consumers tend to be irrationally loyal about cars and cigarettes. Lose that loyalty and it’s hard to get customer back. Honda and Toyota have just done a better job overall. Not saying GM makes bad cars, but for sedans over past 30 years Honda and Toyota have been much stronger.


#70

GM s been trading at low PE for a while. Wall Street knows they are in trouble.


#71

Why? What difference does it make to you?


#72

I guess Mexico is only good to go to Cancun for all-inclusive vacation :grin:


#73

The Canadian employees are paid better than the Mexican employees. If it were made in the US, it would be directly supporting additional American jobs


#74

My first brand new car was a 1993 Chevy Cavalier for which I paid MSRP plus $800 for undercoating. It was a complete piece of crap. It didn’t even last for the loan duration of 5 years because I was having so much trouble with it. I sold it after 4 years after making 48 payments of $199/mo for payoff amount. I avoided GM until 2015 when I leased a Chevy Spark EV. Honestly, it wasn’t that bad of a car. I never had to take it in for service. I was actually going to lease a 2018 Chevy Volt until I was just completely turned off by the local Chevy dealer. I ended up leasing a 2018 Tiguan S for $199/mo - how ironic, same monthly payment 25 years later.

So anyhow, the problem with GM isn’t just their cars, it’s their dealerships. It’s their salespeople. Other than chevysalesgirl, they all suck. Ok, maybe not all, but their reputation precedes them, and not in a good way.


#75

Perhaps in nominal terms. But relative to the cost of living, perhaps Mexican employees of GM are paid better than their Canadian counterparts. Certainly more Mexicans aspire to work in auto production than Canadians do. Or are you saying the Mexican auto worker is being exploited?

Even if we accept this at face value, why should it matter? In what other purchase decision do you evaluate the wages paid to workers of the same company in two different offshore locations?


#76

I don’t know if I’d say it was junk. I had one and I was mostly happy with it. In fact as an Uber driver I received tons of compliments on that car. For $176.49 a month for 39/12k I wouldn’t have been able to get anything close to as well equipped at the time, with leather, a sunroof, premium wheels and Android Auto/CarPlay. There were some reliability concerns but they were handled properly under warranty, and it was nothing worse than I saw in other brands. My neighbors had an Accord around the same time that needed an entire engine replacement, so it’s not isolated to GM. The 2016 Malibu was a perfectly competitive midsize sedan when it came out, only the Mazda 6 was really “better”. The problem is that they put out a competitive midsize sedan just as the need for one began to die out. The biggest issue that GM faces is a perception problem moving forward, as many of the comments here prove.


#77

The segment isn’t dead. Toyota is on track to sell 300K+ Camrys this year. But the market doesn’t want domestic sedans. People associate them with bad quality from the past and/or rental car fleets (if they associate them at all, considering how many times nameplates get changed, dropped and/or resurrected)


#78

Camry is down 6% YTD though. Accord is down 11% on a brand new design. Altima is down 17%. The only midsize that’s up is the Clarity, and that was all @LIMBO’s doing LOL. It’s certainly not a dead segment, but it IS dying, at least short term.


#79

#80

You realize there’s a middle ground between absence of growth and a “dying” segment, right?

It’s called a decline. Not a demise.


#81

True, but that’s not an absence of growth. It’s a shrinking segment. It’s not flat, it’s negative. Ford killing everything off was a pretty loud and clear signal to me. GM just made it even clearer. I’d wager that in 10 years time, barring a huge increase in gas prices that the only sedans left on the market will be of the performance/enthusiast variant in the US. It’s basically impossible for a crossover to replace them in that market, but in everything else it just seems to be what the market wants. The perception just seems to be that you are sacrificing versatility for minimum fuel economy gains when you go with the sedan over the crossover, even if that’s not necessarily the case. People tend to over buy thinking about all the stuff that they need to haul around, even if in reality they won’t be doing any of that 99% of the time.