Op, can you post a contract with details blurred out? @Niel
He may be just trolling also.
That’s what I’m thinking.
Someone in his situation would post the contract a long time ago, especially after multiple requests from others trying to help.
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Looks like trolling to me too. I mean this dude was capable of finding this website, then breaking down the numbers and explaining what happened to him, yet he didn’t spend fraction of such effort to do his homework before walking into dealership and making such an enormous mistake?
Hello,
Sure i’ll post the contract.
I don’t know why you are so worried about trolls. I don’t have the time to bother trolling people. I was at work, could not be online.
That’s very strange to me that you are that hostile, but whatever… I don’t live like that.
In any event there’s 19 replies. I haven’t had time to read them all. I will post the contract after it is all done.
I think I fully explained my effort, and the process by which I got burned. If it is not clear I’ll be happy to explain again. It was a simple matter of me trusting someone on their word that we had a deal.
I told the dealer I would NEVER agree to what they initially offered, which was the OP. They called me back the next day and showed me a paper with $1500 down and $499/mo.
They said, I think you’ll be happy with this.
I said I am. They offered an extra 1k on the trade.
I said deal, we shook.
At no point in time, EVER, did they tell me that the trade equity was actually going into the deal
At no point in time EVER, did they tell me that the requested 10% off (which they showed 9%) was simply them applying incentives.
A few hours later I was signing, a piece of paper was put over the paper I was signing (as friendly help, of course, because there are a lot of signatures needed). We were laughing, talking about stories of trips, I never thought ever that they were pulling a fast one.
Could I have said, stop… I want to read this thoroughly and make sure you aren’t screwing me right now.
Absolutely I could have. I did not even have the thought enter my mind. Each paper that was signed was whisked away and another paper arrived and was just as quickly whisked away, then they were folded all up and put into an envelope. I received the paper in an envelope at the time it was time to receive the car. Conversation ensued, stories told, much laughs had all around. Immediately went out to the car and the demo of features began.
Thanks were given, had, by this point we’d been there many hours, left went out out to dinner so happy again thinking what a great deal.
Came home, looked through paperwork in bed… oh shit moments came later that night, did not sleep at all, not one minute.
There is not a troll bone in my body. I could not be assed to troll someone about what, getting a bad deal?
Who in the name of god would waste their time trying to convince strangers on the internet that they got a BAD deal?
Idk what kind of world you live in mate, but that’s not me. I just was foolish. There is nothing here but a person who regrets being trusting and thinking that because they were “in the country” people are honest.
That’s it.
It is all so easy to see now. So very easy to see. I am debating whether to call this fraud. In every sense it is. Literally the only holding me back is that in the end, it’s my fault. I didn’t have to sign anything I could have said, let me read this thoroughly to make sure you aren’t screwing me. Let me make sure you have not changed all these numbers around so that you have given me, actually, the exact deal Insaid no to. Let me verify that you are honest.
If I had done that and been skeptical of these people I would have said, wait… this is not what we agreed to.
I saw the same numbers that they put in front of me, but only briefly. It is true. I do not really, fully understand “cap cost, gross cap, incentive, etc, etc, etc…”
I simply trusted that $1500 down and $495 a month was - $1500 down and $495 a month. We even had a conversation about how my bank was closed and we would not be able to get the exact amount for the payoff that day. I assumed that this was a reliable operation. Never did I think this was possible.
They literally gave me the Exact same deal as what I said hard NO to, they simply sold it to me as $1500 down and $495 a month. Originally they asked for something like 10k down and $335 a month. It was the exact same deal, they took the trade equity of 6 or 7k, (whatever number they made up the second day) and raised the monthly payment by $100 from their initial offer to offset the fact that they were taking in a bit less cash (since they showed me $1500 down).
It was the Exact same deal as I told them,
“Not in any universe would I agree to this. I will never give you both the trade equity and cash down, never.”
So, when I went in… they didn’t tell me that they would take the trade equity. They offered me another 1k for the trade, lowered the amount that they asked from me down to $1500k and made it look like a great deal. I didn’t even remember to ask again about the mf, which I knew was at .00206%, because it WAS a great deal.
- they simply had no intention of honoring it. They lied, plain and simple. It was a bait and switch. I didn’t catch it.
I am sorry you do not believe me.
Don’t really know what I can do about that. I will post contact after this is resolved, one way or another.
You shouldn’t have. Just post your original contract so others can help you. That’s all.
There is ONE paper that matters, a long one, where all the information you need is concentrated: the MSRP, agreed upon price, discounts. rebates, fees, taxes, rent charges, residual value, number of payments, monthly payments , total value of the transaction and so on.
Usually, no matter how fast they want to pull it, the first thing they do is have you look at the screen and say “This is how much so and so is and this is what you will be paying”. Then they print that page where all those numbers are shown and before you initial and sign it. It doesn’t matter how many other papers and how fast they whisked away with your signature, that ONE paper is the most important one and if you had no clue what you were signing then you must blame yourself. If you can type all you have typed here so far then surely you can read what is typed in one page break down as well. It’s very odd that being capable of what you evidently are (reading, writing , describing at length what happened), you at the same time claim not to have known what you were getting into as you sat there and signed papers they printed for you. That’s why it appears to be as if you were trolling, not because there is any hostility towards you.
It’s quite easy for a layperson to miss, and no one here would be surprised if dealers helped make it so. “Customer cash” line says X, “monthly payment” line says Y…that’s what most people focus on.
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I’m not trolling.
I simply was excited to get a BMW 340i for a great price. I wanted to go home. I saw a LOT of numbers and I saw the same numbers that they had presented earlier (albeit in very different and important locations that i now know are very important.)
I don’t do this for a living. I don’t ever look at these. There are far more moving targets on a lease than a finance and I did pretty well I think on my financed cars.
I don’t know what to say except, I just figured it was ok. I simply never imagined that level of deceit. I’m sorry.
That’s all there is to it. I’ve already admitted that it has to be my fault. I’ve already admitted that at ANY time I could have stopped the process and said whoa, whoa, whoa…
let’s dig into these numbers here.
Let’s stop and go over this again
Let’s make sure you are not trying to screw me.
I absolutely could have done that. Of course. I did not think that. I never entered my head. I genuinely liked these people. They were very kind. I still don’t hate these guys. That’s not the way I am wired. I wish they were more honest and I am going to stand up for myself, and I will never do this again without help, but I don’t know what else to say… I am not someone who thinks on that level that if someone says something to me, they are completely lying.
I figured that once a deal was agreed to, that was it. I did not know the bullshit extends all the way to the point that you walk out the front door. I did not know you could get screwed AFTER you come to an agreement, because they’ll rearrange the numbers and make the numbers you saw earlier mean something totally different.
I did not know.
On some level I believe they know this is wrong because they are unwinding it, at least to give me my cash for the trade… but now I am in a bind because I have very little room to maneuver since they control the conversation by saying “it’s simple, you take this cash and the payment rises to this (insert high number here.)”
I’m not asking for sympathy cuz.
I came here to get advice on a good deal. I got played. I lost. I don’t know how else to read the situation. Yea, i’m Very pissed. I don’t like being tricked. I take responsibility for signing something I did not fully understand.
I believe I did that many, many posts ago where I said well, I guess I am going to have to eat this.
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I’m not posting that until I am done.
Right now I am half way between having a lease and having a new one and I am well aware to not trust a word these people say at this point.
I have not the slightest idea what harm could come from posting the lease before it is redone or finalized, but i’d Prefer to not post that until whatever comes of this is done.
I have it sitting right in front of me, ask me anything and I will tell you what it says, but i’m not posting a picture of it until this saga is over.
I am not saying you are trolling. Who knows what you are actually doing? What I am saying is that what you type gives an impression of you having capability which is inconsistent with your claim of complete unawareness of what was happening as you signed the agreement.
It’s like a high school student writing an essay about his inability to write a sentence.
I don’t know what to tell you.
Your opinion is valid, ok?
I told them on day one, I WILL NEVER GIVE YOU ANY MONEY DOWN and GIVE YOU THE EQUITY OF MY TRADE
I think the simplest way to explain this is they said, OK, WE UNDERSTAND.
And then the just proceeded to write the contract however they damn please.
I’m tired man, I appreciate your viewpoint. I should have been more careful.
OK, you’re definitely trolling, for sure. Hopefully this thread gets locked/cleaned up.
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It can’t get any worse than it is now, but can get better if someone here helps you to actually make it better. Or it can stay the same, if you keep doing it yourself.
This is exactly it.
I was simply looking for the key numbers that I had been shown before, they were all there.
If I had stopped to analyze the paper and took five minutes (not long, that’s all it would have taken, five minutes) - if I had done that I would have realized it was wrong.
That’s exactly what I did later in that night. I knew it was wrong in five minutes. I simply did not expect that level of deceit, they did the exact thing I asked them not to do. To me, I do not experience that level of deception on a daily basis. I would absolutely kill myself if I had to lie to people like this on a daily basis.
This is not a good life, but whatever.
I can suck it up. I’ll never buy or lease anything from them again, and I will write a few letters to the management and the BBB, yelp, and maybe even the attorney general.
I’m pissed off, but yea we all know the only thing that matters is, did you sign it?
Yes I did,
So, I own it.
I guess someone can learn from this and know that, guess what?
It does not matter 1 cent what they say, and they will do anything they can to take every cent you have and then they’ll tell you they are losing money.
And then they’ll probably laugh and say what a moron, whatever… It’s fraud man, I don’t have any other opinion about it. It is fraudulent to agree to something, to accept someone’s words, and then do the thing they told you NO on… and they get away with it because their system is damn complex and I’m four hours into this thing and just want the damn car for $1500 down, please can I go home now.
It’s BS.
Whatever, I’ll eat it and i’ll do what I can to make sure that other people know. Bout all I can do. I’m getting my cash back at least. I’ll try and turn this into something that is at least acceptable, bad but acceptable.
I will pm you the contract with names blanked out, but not tonight. I’m in bed and I’m not doing it now.
The risk of posting your deal here is this:
(1) Someone tries to poach it from you;
(2) Someone from the dealer is monitoring and knows you don’t know what you’re doing;
(3) You’re worried about someone ascertaining your identity.
Here are my responses:
(1) No one in their right mind is going to poach this deal from you.
(2) Redact the VIN and dealer name from the paperwork. Even if they still figure it out, at this point they have the upper hand anyway.
(3) Redact the paperwork to remove your name and address.
I don’t need it. There are better options here.