Trust me when I say the last thing you want is to own an out of warranty luxury car, especially a BMW. I made that mistake once. Leasing is the way to go. Glad they were willing to work with you.
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Ok.
Thank you.
See, I would have done the wrong thing again.
I am pretty happy to have $3k back and $80/mo more payment.
I just want to do whatever makes the smartest financial sense.
It’s 24 months lease, so $40 per $1,000 is correct.
36 mo sorry, I initially wanted 24 but the payments were even higher. I will request 24, it’s what I wanted, but this info is for 36.
I’m sure they gave you lease options based on 24 months.
They did, yes but the payments were even higher than what i’m quoting here. I didn’t bother writing them down because I thought they were insanely high.
I know this is all wrong, I just wish I had someone with me that knew what the hell was the truth cause these guys showed me their computer screen and with puppy dog eyes said “we’re losing $500.00” on this deal.
I’m staring at the numbers, there’s like 15 different columns and I cannot say to them, well you should make -3,000 so my lease payments make sense!
I know it is messed up, but I’m just not enough of a sob to be that ruthless, and I don’t know how the car industry works enough to be able to tell where they are using the extra money.
They told me that the margins on BMW are razor thin, that there is no way they could do 10% off MSRP or they’d be fired. I got a final sales price of 51,500 on a 56k car after incentives and such, but there was nothing off the top.
I’m going to take the $3k and do $589/mo.
No way I’m ever buying or leasing another car without a pro with me, a broker or someone who works in car finance. I don’t hate these guys or anything, and I absolutely love this damn car an absurd amount. I just won’t do this again without help.
I did very well at Acura 3 years ago. I got 10k off the mdx and fiananced the car for less than what it would cost me to lease this bmw with no money down. I thought I could handle this… and I was wrong lol.
You dont need a broker. Broker can’t get for you better deal than you can.
I know your deal is now over and done with, but I wanted to chime in on a few points:
Car salesmen are not your friends. They are trying to sell you a car so the dealership makes the most amount of money possible. You are the one who pays in the end. Some salesmen kill you with kindness. Some are bullies, and employ high-pressure sales tactics. It’s all designed to manipulate you, one way or another.
When they tell you they are losing $500 on your transaction, they are lying. It’s an old, cheap salesman trick. The fact is, the invoice price is not what the dealership pays for the car, and doesn’t include for the other ways dealerships make money, through holdbacks, bonuses, incentives, financing arrangements, etc.
They’re being ruthless with you. If someone walked up to you and punched you in the face, would you defend yourself, or ask them to do it again?
Getting a great deal like the one that you described takes A LOT of work. You have to understand how car leasing works, of course, but that information only puts you on the same level playing field as the dealership. In other words, fully understanding the leasing process only means you know what you are SUPPOSED to know.
The rest is hard negotiation, flexibility on which model you want, dealing with demo/loaners, and most importantly, the ability to walk away from a bad offer.
As others have said, you’ve got your car now, so enjoy it - but definitely take some steps to educate yourself so this never happens to you again.
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He needs a broker. He was totally lost. Sure he “can” get the same deal a broker can, but with zero experience it’s absolutely worth his money to hire one. It could have saved him a lot of time and money. I know you like to be a contrarian, but don’t give people bad advice just for the sake of it.
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So, the original deal is being ripped up.
We are redoing it because I told them I was pissed that I came in and verbally agreed to terms that ended up NOT being what I actually signed.
The $1500 down/$495 a month was actually $8000 down /$ 495 a month.
The MSRP reduction we talked about. I had asked for 10% and was shown 9%. That actually ended up not being so… what they did was take the incentives and such and reduce the MSRP to 9% but that is not off the top… and hence that is not really any discount at all.
I’m trying my best to use the information I have, but I am at a slight disadvantage because technically I signed papers (albeit misleadingly).
What I am shooting for now is to take the $4500 down and $589 a month deal that they offered, but to have them give me the lease protection for free. That’s like $900.
Also, my credit score came back 690 and I asked for flex on the money factor, they originally told me that was nothing they could flex on… then later admitted they could. Right now the mf is as high as it can go, .00206.
I told them, for crying out loud, why don’t I just buy the damn car at this interest rate, it’s the same as financed. This makes no sense, not what a lease is supposed to be, etc, and I got the impression they did not want that (which is why I thought I should lol) but anyway…i’m Listening to the advice and I won’t buy it.
Look, I totally know this is shady and they’re liars. They did trick me, and I do feel it was bait and switch. At the same time I signed something I didn’t really understand and now I’m trying to let them save face without throwing this all in their face calling them damn liars and such so that the only thing that comes out of this is a court case I probably lose because the judge says,
“we’ll maybe they did lie, but so what?
you shouldn’t have signed it.”
Considering all that has happened and that situation, does that make sense to you guys?
$4500 down, $589/mo including the lease protection?
I’m just aiming for something that makes this deal at least not the worst thing a human being has ever signed, and something that I can get someone who technically now has the upper hand to agree to.
Have you mentioned where you’re located?
I’m in the northwest. I decided not to give too much info because anyone can read the forums, and if I was a car dealer I’d be reading them all day.
If they do read this thread it’s obvious it is me, but i’m not giving any location so they could never prove it.
I hate this shit. I fucking hate doing any of this lol. Just trying to salvage a very stupid move on my part now.
In any event, there is basically zero competition where I am for hundreds of miles. It’s them or the highway.
You’re in a tight spot here. I’m in the Northwest too and the biggest problem is the lack of competition and large amount of money floating around up here that makes BMW especially noncompetitive.
If you have already signed the deal and now they’re allowing you to renegotiate the terms, I would determine if you can just walk away and take a breath. If you can’t (I’m guessing you can’t), you need to push for as much discount as possible and as low a MF as your credit will support. Without seeing the breakdown of the numbers you’re presenting, I can’t tell you whether it is a good deal or not.
Yea, I really doubt I can walk away.
.00206mf
$4500 down
$589/mo
565**k sticker
51250 after incentives
3 yrs/10k
$3k cash in pocket.
Or,
Just buy the car with $8k into it at 879/mo.
I should be able to negotiate the interest rate at that point.
My thought is just take the lease, ask for the lease protection wrapped into it (because of the misleading info given earlier), and call it a day. Considering the situation, I personally would be very happy with that. I know they are going to say, “we’re already -$500 on the car, we can’t”
Any counter to that would be much appreciated. I guess the simplest thing is, lower the mf a bit from .00206, right?
Yeah, you don’t want to buy it with the new 3 series coming out next month, you’d see 2 huge residual drops in 1 month and no cheap way to get away in 2/3/4/etc years.
Leasing for base MF (still 0.00166?) and around $500p/m with minimal down is a good save in this situation.
I’d be shooting for a 51K sale price before incentives and buy rate on the MF, personally. That would get you close to the number that @ajgraham suggested.
But I’m assuming I know which dealer group this is and they’ll tell you to get lost. They don’t do more than 6% discount (~invoice) and they charge full markup on the MF.
I’m kind of at a loss here. You need to do what you’re comfortable with here - definitely don’t buy it. I’d personally take a check for the full equity of the lease regardless - don’t put any down as cap cost reduction.
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… edited for clarity and additional info…
But wait, initially the basic verbal agreement was $1500 down with $495 right?
The trade in was added in later at some point and the monthly payment did not change as a result. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a check for the trade in back and keep the deal as initially agreed?
(I don’t think you’d get that, but it’s definitely what i’d be aiming for)
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Hmmm . . . .what exactly did you sign, then? Can you post it? (Redact your name and dealer information.) Unless it’s the final lease agreement, which should clearly set out the monthly payment, amount down, etc., then you should have options and may not be locked in.
Agree with @ajgraham and @28firefighter. DON’T BUY for the reasons they have stated.
Even if you are in a non-competitive area such as the NW, it would be absolutely unheard of to buy an outgoing model at full MSRP, even with incentives. I’d try to get them to take a discount on the MSRP BEFORE incentives. The counter-argument to “We’re minus-$500 on the car” is: “No, don’t feed me that BS. The invoice price is not the same as the dealer’s cost. You’re making out like a bandit.”
If you’re still negotiating, things can’t be set in stone, so that’s why I’m a bit confused as to where you are in the process now.
Oh I totally agree.
That was my impression too, that the cash was coming to me and the deal was $1500/$495 mo.
Then I looked at th contract and realized the MSRP was not really reduced at all and my trade went into the deal. That was not what we talked about. I told them at the start, 100% I will never give you cash and the car, no way… not in any universe will you get cash from my pocket and the trade equity.
So, when they showed me $1500/$495mo I assumed that we were operating on those same terms. They basically agreed to everything I said, then ignored everything I said and wrote the deal exactly how they wanted (which I told them I would not accept)
Between showing me pieces of paper with what looked like $1500 down and $495 per month, and then the actual contract - they changed it back and I didn’t notice it.
We had a verbal agreement. I told them no way, no how will o give you the trade and cash. They agreed. They showed me paper that had a range of options for cash down and I picked the one that said $1500 down and $495/mo.
Then on the contract they just wrote the trade in anyway and I like an idiot believed that we had a deal, what we agreed upon was not what they wrote up. They tricked me and they got me by telling stories in the office of vacations they’ve taken and quite honestly the stories were hilarious.
I did not think that someone would agree to a deal verbally and then completely ignore that agreement and write the exact thing I said no to. I let my guard down after we agreed to numbers.
I promise you I absolutely will not buy the car. The contract was signed and within hours I realize it was not what we had agreed to verbally. I told them they needed to honor our original agreement (verbal), take their car back, or I would sue.
So here we are.
I don’t want to sue. I’m trying to just make this acceptable to all parties. They definitely pulled a bait and switch and they caught me off guard. It’s stupid of me, but that is what happened. I honestly never thought that after we verbally agreed to numbers AND shook on it… I thought that’s it, we’re done, I can relax.
Then they simply wrote the contract exactly as I had said “no way” too, but I saw the numbers that they had shown me in the agreement we made.
The contract still said $1500 cash, $495/mo, 51250 cap… it was only when I looked at sale price on the pink paper I saw that the MSRP was still there as “sales price”, then I saw the incentives brought the price down to 9% off MSRP.
But that is not what we verbally agreed to. I specifically asked them for 10% off and they showed me 9%. I specifically asked to keep my trade in equity to myself and to give them a little cash down OR to let them use the equity but NO cash down… they wrote the contract exactly as the offer that I said no to and I didn’t pick it up.
If you look at my first post… that is essentially what the wrote the contract for, I absolutely said no to that… we agreed to $1500 down, $495 per month, they were asking me how much I owe on my car but my bank was closed on Sat and I totally thought that we had come to and agreement where the money was coming to me and I had negotiated a good deal.
I perfectly elucidated that I would never give them cash AND my equity, and they wrote it in anyway. We talked numbers and all the while they were planing numbers based on taking the equity. It’s ridiculous.
Now, they are saying I’m sorry you misunderstood, here you can have your trade equity, we’ll cash you out - the problem is that now the monthly payment is not what we agreed to - it’s no longer $1500/$495 a month.
So, I never would have agreed to this. But as I signed it I feel stuck and yea, they got me good. Idol what to do except try and get the best I can now. Now, it looks like they are doing me a huge favor, which is not the case, but I’m simply trying to get enough to live with it. I don’t know how hard to push.
Could I go to court?
Yes.
Do I want to?
No.