A dealer is under no obligation to discount the car below MSRP. California and Tri State market are totally different. Not even an apples to apples comparison. There are 2 other Volvo dealers in the DFW area. Autobahn and Grubbs. Between Park Place and Crest, who had the better deal?
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Iām aware that a dealership is under no obligation to sell me a car at a price that I like, just like Iām under no obligation to buy a car from them at a price that I donāt like. Itās a free market, I get that, except when the pricing is artificially manipulated.
I also understand that different markets have different prices. But announced deals on this forum from California and Tri-State area show what deals are theoretically possible, so thereās no harm in shooting for the moon and seeing what sticks. In Texas the taxes on leases make things an uphill struggle from the get-go, so you are always dealing with one hand tied behind your back when trying to emulate a deal that you saw in another state.
I never dealt with Grubbs. I was shopping for a Volvo lease last summer and either they werenāt open at that time or I didnāt know about them.
Autobahn was a joke. When I called to inquire about pricing and told them that I was in the Dallas area, they were giving me such astronomical pricing that it was almost like they wanted me to go away. (stripped-out bare bones Demo thatās been on their lot for 300 days with 10K miles for $800/month!) Thatās the impression that I got. I have a sense that there is a āgentlemanās agreementā among the Volvo dealerships in the area that they are not allowed to poach deals from geographic areas outside of their purview. When I called dealerships in the Austin and Houston area they actually told me, āwhy donāt you go with your local dealership?ā Very fishyā¦
Between Crest and Park Place, Park Place gave me a better deal and were generally less unseemly than the salespeople at Crest. I told the guys at Crest that I was prepared to do MSDs to lower the money factor and when they present me a deal, they markup the money factor by the exact same amount that I had offered to pay it down. It was like running in place. They seem to think that I didnāt know what they were doing. I did. Thatās why I ran away from that place.
What if he just made this up? You play games and dealers play games. Especially when everyone knows there is only one other dealer in your area. Not that hard to bluff.
JFC, itās come to this now where someone expects a deal in Texas and canāt get one, so heās writing the FTC about it.
The good news for the FTC is they can use the paper it is on for TP
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Obviously heās writing the FTC about the salesman admitting to price fixing, not not giving him a good dealā¦
Iāve never dealt with Grubbs either. So I have no first hand knowledge of how they do business. Iām surprised you got such bad treatment at Autobahn. Iāve purchased from their BMW store in the past and had good luck. Instead of wasting more time, Iād just get a broker. There are a few on here that specialize in Volvo. Maybe the deal will be good enough to offset the cost of shipping.
Good point but I donāt buy it by the context and tone that he used.
When the dealer made that statement to me he was trying to convince me that his deal was sooo good because he checked it with the other dealer. He seemingly said it off-the-cuff and very matter-of-factly. A slip of the tongue. He didnāt even realize that he said something that he shouldnāt have said, and I didnāt react either with my poker-face. But once I knew what was going on, the cat was out of the bag and I left.
In any case, why would you bluff with making a claim about an illegal activity? That seems pretty far-fetched and would expose the dealership to FTC antitrust scrutiny or state AG actions. If I were their attorney I would have stained my shorts when I heard them say that. I was about to retort that I never told them that I even went to shop a deal at the other dealership, but I figured there was no point.
You helped me a lot with my lease deals, Ursus, so this isnāt an ill-tempered reply. Iām just very politely disagreeing with you. Believe me, I was as shocked as all of you are were when I heard evidence of collusion come out of my salespersonās mouth. I always assumed that it was a level playing field out there and it was just us (the hackrs) matching wits with the salespeople.
Itās a warning to be wary. Next time I go car shopping Iām going to use different names at different dealerships. Never did I imagine that this would even be a possibility when I was shopping for a car, but if there is money involved then there is a motivation to do shady things which then sometimes turns into doing illegal things.
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You mean āDear FTC, I canāt get a hackr deal in Texas cause the dealer wonāt drop their pantsā
Iāve had dealers tell me theyāve talked to each other regarding a deal. Thatās their right, just as itās mine to price shop.
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You cross shopping dealers is not the same thing as two independent companies agreeing on set pricing terms. Now, we can debate if this actually was price-fixing (although two unrelated businesses meeting to discuss pricing and limit it sure sounds like it fits the description), but if it is price-fixing, it is certainly not within their right to do so.
If both dealers are offering a price below MSRP already, how is it price setting? Both have a floor they will sell at and they probably told each other thatās where theyāre stopping.
Thatās where itās price-fixing.
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IANAL, but I canāt see this being an issue.
But those 2 dealers donāt control the entire market. So I donāt know if that would pass legal scrutiny.
āPrice fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms. Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor.ā
Nothing in there from the FTC about having to control the market.
I donāt disagree that the complaint likely wonāt go anywhere, but that certainly doesnāt make it legal.
Only if he didnāt lie about it. If he did then itās just hot air, IMO. Just playing devilās advocate here, not disagreeing or agreeing with you.
True. He could have lied when admitting to a crime. Granted, thatād be a pretty stupid thing to do.
Would make for an entertaining case thoughā¦ āyou see, your honorā¦ we didnāt actually price fix. We just told the customer we wereā¦ā
I wonder if that qualifies for a different category of fraud?
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Come on, all dealers make up stories all the time, the same way buyers do.
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Oh, absolutely. Usually, they arenāt stupid enough to make up stories where they claim to be violating trade law.
Of course there was that check fraud guyā¦
Okā¦well keep us updated on how the prosecution goesā¦lol