This speaks volumes about you. Watch how fast they get down to business and I don’t mean funny business. They know not to mess with you.
It’s a different reg for leasing (Reg M) Under TILA (Reg Z), you’re financing the purchase of a vehicle where certain financial disclosures are mandatory. Under a lease, you don’t own the vehicle which relieves them of making those required disclosures under TILA. However, you can get the MF buy rate and residual through Edmunds or by becoming an LH super supporter.
I did work it out before but should have been better at recording the numbers. Even did numbers there as I was seeing them and it still worked out better. When factoring interest income based on lower payment, I think it would have taken a bigger change in payment to raise that question.
Ultimately on a lease the payment and DAS are the only things that matter and the only things coming out of your pocketbook. Negotiating a lease is different than negotiating a purchase.
As we’ve mentioned at the end of the day it does not matter if the dealer marks up the MF as long as they meet your agreed upon payment and DAS terms. One of the best leases I ever negotiated on a Porsche Cayenne had the MF marked up to the max by the dealer.
But if you never agreed to any payment or DAS terms beforehand then I think that’s what we’re all having a hard time with.
Agree. I saw this form in my research and should have used it. I was very confident the lease factor was .00137 based on Edmunds forum and other research. I accept responsibility for not confirming numbers and double checking contract after multiple versions. It’s just breaks my heart that this way of doing business is practiced. No honor or integrity.
Yeah, I didn’t agree to a payment $ but did stipulate zero down. I was fixated with price and total cost. As I replay in my head, when I said I wanted 39 (my mistake for not having numbers run), they brought out a new payment sheet showing payments at 36 and 39. I figured they kept .00137. I think they inflated both numbers but made the 39 look really good. But I did ask again before signing papers and was shown on computer that .00137 was still MF
I’m so confused… You keep saying you weren’t focused on payment. So you just told them zero down and didn’t care what the payment was? Many people have asked what you agreed to, and you don’t seem to know. Do you have texts, emails, screenshots of their deal proposals?
Presumably, there had to be some combination of total DAS & payment you agreed to before signing?
The inference I’m drawing from previous responses is that OP’s main objectives were to contain pre-incentive selling price and adjusted cap cost… before bring the concept of financing into the deal.
Like how one would approach a purchase/auto loan transaction.
I dont disagree that’s what seems to have happened, but there are more pieces to the puzzle that establish cost. This is very much a case of losing sight of the forest through the trees.
First I negotiated price with all fees. Then I confirmed MF. Instead of looking at what my payment was, I wanted to be sure that the rent charges didn’t change and there weren’t additional fees added. When I saw the rent charge something didn’t feel right. I asked is that based on the agreed MF. Told and shown yes. I did a quick calc and was told I wasn’t calculating it right. I didn’t have the confidence in my calcs because i was getting different numbers on different ones. And there is varied articles on how to calculate rent charge. I should have gone in with more solid numbers and calculated my payment. I got lost trying to keep up with numbers. They knew they could confuse me and slip extra charges into rent charge hoping I wouldn’t catch.
Unfortunately, negotiating things in a piece-part, ambiguous manner often leads to stuff like this.
In the future, there are two reasonable ways to approach this… either monthly payment and due at signing only, or itemize every single thing all in one discussion. If you don’t do things holistically, you set yourself up for issues.
Yeah, I started creating a form similar to what was posted but thought everything was solid already. My trust level was too high. Just breaks your heart that this is still the practice. Confuse, deceive, and manipulate. I’ll let you know what they say today when I contact them. Maybe a mistake and we redo the contract…doubtful. Maybe I convince them the public opinion negativity isn’t worth scamming me out of the $…also doubtful.
One last thing…was it still a great deal even with extra 2100 in rent charges?
I think so. 841/70250 =.012
Was at 70250-60091= 10159 off MSRP 14.5%
Now at 70250-62191= 8059 off MSRP 11.4.
I also asked about early payoff because I have the cash to just buy it outright. If it would prevent them from getting the extra 2100 I would do it. Would lose some investment dollars but gain some satisfaction.%
What do you have, in writing, that shows them agreeing to buy rate?
Otherwise, this is going to be interpreted as nothing more than a case of “I am not happy with the deal that was itemized and agreed to in writing, stating I was ok with the deal”.
Is the rent charge only based on MF or can they add a lump sum to that line?
They showed me the .00137 being used to create contract. My guess is there is another line that allows them to add a premium or lump sum that they didn’t show me. But the contract just shows the summed value without breakdown.
If Acura doesn’t allow dealer to add a premium do I have to worry about them not using AFS?.
Rent charge is only based on MF. They can’t add a lump sum.
Without seeing the desking software they were using, it’s hard to say. Some will show the buy rate with the mark up in a separate line, so if you didn’t know what you were looking at, it could be easy to focus on the buyrate line and ignore the spot where it showed the mark up. They potentially could have shown you the deal sheet with the mark up itemized.
Thank you. So if true that it is AFS and no lump sum can be added, then it is only a MF change. If what another poster said is true, that AFS doesn’t allow markups on MF how did they add this extra $2100 to the rent line?
I didn’t see where another poster said AFS couldn’t mark up the rate for additional profit.
However that would be very unusual as we haven’t seen a lessor on here that doesn’t allow mark-ups & a one or two can even mark up the acquisition fee if they so choose.
