Deal check: 2023 Honda CR-V Sport Touring (NJ)

Ask the Hackrs
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No idea what I’m doing, but I’m doing research and trying my best. I’m coming up on the end of my 2020 Honda Accord lease, and looking to return it and lease a 2023 CR-V Sport Touring.

The payoff price on my Accord is about $19k. It’s in very good, but not perfect, condition. Looking on KBB and Carvana I’m seeing trade-in value estimates of around $24k-$26k.

So far I’ve gotten some numbers from my local dealership, they’ve been dragging their feet on giving me the full specs of the deal so I’m trying to work with what I’ve got so far (I’m working on getting quotes from other dealerships, and also telling this dealership I need to see the whole deal or I’m walking away):

Money factor is 0.00262 and residual is 65%, these numbers match what I see in the supporter calculator.

Trade-in value was $20,500. This seems low, but how far off from typical is that? I assume you shouldn’t expect the trade-in value to match what you could get from a 3P, but how much of a gap is reasonable?

But I don’t have the cap cost yet, only monthly payments (I know, I know). The numbers I have are $579 with $2,000 down, or $482 with $5,000 down (I know, I know). These numbers include the ~$1,500 equity from the trade-in.

So I played around with these numbers in the calculator to try and back out to the cap cost. It looks like a cap cost of around $43,250 would give those monthly payments along with these other numbers, which is about 7% above MSRP.

So, couple questions. First, I realize I’m not going to be able to get very far with incomplete information, so I’m telling this first dealership to send me the full deal, and I’ve asked for quotes from a couple other dealerships. In the meantime, I’m looking for some feedback on these numbers. Is there any rule of thumb for what to expect from a trade-in vs. a third-party sale? I’m wondering how far off that $20,500 is. And as for the cap cost, I realize the market has been crazy and the CR-V Hybrid is hot these days, but is it fair to assume that 7% above sticker is still crazy? On TrueCar I see a lot of these cars selling for right around MSRP, is that the right expectation?

edit: Just heard back from this first dealership with the full terms of the deal. My 7% over MSRP guesstimate was wrong – looks like the cap cost is exactly equal to the MSRP. After plugging the real numbers into the calculator everything matches now.

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is the trade in including in the deal

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Your getting taken for a ride with those lease proposals

The car is brand new and the market is horrible so the Honda dealers are looking to up charge 5-10k

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This is what I would do.

  1. Separate those two transactions. In 90% cases You will leave money on the table.

  2. Get maximum equity from the accord by shopping around. My friend just finalized selling his leased CRV to Rodo. They offered the highest equity. Noone could touch this number.

  1. If You are glued to CRV shop around and everyone will say better to purchase it.

  2. If You are open for different makes look at the marketplace here. The brokers offer good deals for today’s market.

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Yes, those numbers are inclusive of the equity from the trade-in. I just edited my original post to clarify that.

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Finance it, but find a better deal. not every car is made to lease, especially honda

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Oof. Not what I wanted to hear, but this is the kind of feedback I needed to hear, thanks.

Just so I understand though, are you saying Honda dealers are looking to charge 5-10k over MSRP (but not getting it, except from dummies like me), or people are actually paying 5-10k over MSRP for new CR-V hybrids? In other words, I’m getting taken for a ride by the market, or by this dealership?

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Should be looking at an rdx in that price range…we can assist.

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I’m also a newbie, too, but I think you’re getting taken for a ride by not separating out the trade from the deal and by trying to lease a car that just may not structurally lease that well (esp w/ a MF of 0.00262).

How much of a loss in equity is “reasonable?” I guess that would depend on how much you would save on taxes by trading it back in to the dealership (vs. having to buy it out yourself).

Plug in the numbers into the calculator to see what you get. The dealer is presumably taking your $3-5K in equity, on top of whatever they’re listing as the cap cost of the car.

Is there a reason you don’t want to finance the car?

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If you are going to save the headache of tire kickers and shopping your trade around (if you can sell it to a 3rd party), tell the dealer LAST about any trade after they have agreed to your numbers on the CRV lease.

That’s not separating your transactions but it is close.

I have done that many times and left a few bucks on the table but made it up in less hassle, taxes and time.

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Is there a reason you don’t want to finance the car?

Not a great reason, I suppose. Since we wanted to upgrade on size from an Accord to a CR-V size car, we figured we’d lease once more for 3 years, and then finally buy when that next lease is up (also with an eye on possibly going full electric by that point). I’m certainly open to the idea of buying now, and I’m repeatedly hearing feedback that that would probably be a smarter move (plus widening the search beyond Honda).

That being said, I just got more detailed numbers from this guy and I was wrong about 7% over MSRP, looks like this deal is using a cap cost equal to MSRP. I’m getting the impression that this is a bad deal in absolute terms, but if you want to lease a 2023 Honda CR-V Hybrid in this market, this is about what you can expect.

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so they’re selling the CRV to you for MSRP but around 4-5k under market value on trade?

hit up @AutoCompanion (wonderful to work with, just closed on a deal), he posted back in Jan they are doing $500 under MSRP. Might be able to get you a good deal on the CRV and better trade value as well. If not, then i’d sell the trade separately to the highest bidder Honda dealer.

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Partner and I looked at CR-Vs 1-2 wks ago, and my memory was that they were selling them close to MSRP, as well.

I think it’s still a bad deal b/c

(I altered the quote for emphasis)

I think Honda is offering 4.9% on financing for longer loans. A CR-V hybrid is, IMHO, going to still retain an incredible amount of its value after 3 yrs (although perhaps not QUITE so much for the highest trim level, but do a search for yourself to see what a used one is going for…), so, if you can afford it, I personally think it’s better idea to finance and then sell it yourself.

Even in the “before” times, Hondas didn’t make for great leases, IIRC.

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Interesting, thanks for the tip on the Honda financing deal! I’ve been learning a lot here today and I’m getting more open to the idea of buying the CR-V rather than leasing, and possibly buying out my Accord to sell it myself (e.g. to Rodo).

Even in the “before” times, Hondas didn’t make for great leases, IIRC.

I’ve seen statements like this before, I’m curious, what makes Hondas (or any particular brand/model) a “bad lease” (irrespective of a specific bad deal like the one I posted about here)? Is it about the terms, or the vehicle itself, or what?

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Honda (and Toyota/Lexus) has realistic RVs, didn’t have insanely low MFs, and didn’t offer a ton of incentive/rebates or huge discounts on loaners (not even sure if Hondas and Toyota generally offered loaners).

Contrast that w/ BMW, where you used to be able to get a retired loaner w/ relatively few miles for (sometimes) a very large discount but still qualify for the new car RV (w/ a minor adjustment for miles) that is higher than what you would get for selling the car yourself, a very low MF (also the same as a new model), and then stack incentives and such on top of that.

You could also get retired loaners from MBs, but, at least after I had started participating on this site (late 2018), MBs generally didn’t have the same level of huge discounts on loaners + insanely low MFs and the same number of generous incentives and such as did BMW.

And then Audi had the least of the above, which is why it generally made for the least appealing leases of the 3 German luxury brands (aside from the SUV E-trons).

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Rodo can buy out Your leased Accord directly from Honda Finance.

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Really appreciate all the great feedback I got on this post, we’ve broadened our options almost entirely thanks to the advice I’ve gotten here.

Honda did come back to me with $22k on the trade-in (up from $20k in the original offer, and compared to my quote of $26k from Rodo), but they haven’t budged on the cap cost yet, and I’m more interested in buying than leasing now anyway.

We’ve switched gears a bit and have been looking at buying a RAV4 Hybrid Limited. Haven’t signed anything yet and am expecting to hear more details today, but we’ve got an offer to do a “custom build” for us (not a literal custom build with Toyota but you know what I mean) at $1k under MSRP which seems like a pretty good deal compared to what I’ve heard of people paying for new hybrid RAV4s.

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Why don’t you just sell the car instead of trading in?

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Forgot to touch on that in my update, but that’s the new plan.

If we wind up going back to Honda for some reason, I think I’d still be willing to consider taking some hit on the equity just for the convenience of being able to do everything in one transaction, but my current plan is to buy from Toyota and sell the Accord to Rodo. I haven’t even discussed a trade-in with Toyota, that seems like it would be more complicated for me anyway assuming they can’t buy directly from HFS.

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This is Your money but i would never let $4k go for the convenience of NOT spending adidtional let say 8 hours selling to Rodo.