I don’t think so, I believe they told me they used Experian, which was the highest of the three. Although the average of all three is very close to the number they gave me over the phone.
Hmm, weird.
Does anyone know what credit score you need for tier 1 with Toyota? Just came from a Toyota dealer and the sales manager said it’s 750 and up.
Currently capital one and Wells Fargo are both giving me around 780 via their website (the free credit reports that come with having an account with them).
@Cody_Carter probably has the best answer to that, unless they are otherwise indisposed at the moment. By the same token, @Jrouleau426 has been getting people approved at ridiculous prices at (relatively speaking) low credit scores, so I guess YMMV.
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Tier 1+ is 720+
Tier 1 is 690-719
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It’s all a complete scam, nobody wants you to know the true number. That way they can constantly F with you. The whole system is setup to F with people, it’s disgusting. If you’re not over 700 be prepared to get screwed and jacked around.
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Keep in mind those are often vanatage score or FICO 8 or 9. Dealerships will also use the auto 8 or auto 2 (for experian, they may be different for the other 2 companies) and the 2 tends to be the harshest score. it can be 10 points or more below your auto 8, so if you are just squeaking by at a 720 on the auto 8, you might be below that on the auto 2
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Never use the educational scores to make decisions. I learned that the hard way. Baring getting dealer to pull it, best option is go direct to Fair Isaac’s own product for consumers myfico.com and get your report there. That way you can see your Auto FICO and the other scores. For some people, the most commonly used score for credit cards (FICO 8) can be way different from Auto FICO and for others (like me) they are almost the same within a couple points. Also find out what bureau the lender pulls and teir needed for the program you want. For example, TFS typically uses TU and although teir 1+ is 720 and above, it’s likely you can qualify for what you want (like some of the Toyota deals posted here) with teir 1. This just lets you be strategic with your money and credit. In my case for example, my TU Auto FICO is 707 but I also know that for my profile, if I pay down debt by 2k, I can bump it to 727 right away if needed. But if I know I can get the deal I want without doing that, then that cash can go toward MSD’s instead and I can stick to my standard monthly credit payment / savings budget. Toyota also has a program for 610 min score but it carries other requirements like 10% CCR.
Thinking about putting a master list together for which version of fico each manuf/finance company pulls(Experian, Transunion, Equifax, fico 8, auto8, auto2, etc…) and also scores for each tier level. Can I start a thread in Ask Hackrs section to collect data points or keep the thread in Off-Ramp? Thanks
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I think it would be a helpful resource to know which score models are used by which finance companies.
I also think you’ll go out of your mind with all of the tier variations from one finance company to another. Might be a good stretch goal, though. 
Off-ramp…
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Credit Karma is NOT accurate at all. I had a customer whose score was 90 points apart from the actual store. Client had screen shots of 750 above scores where actual score came a little above 650. I myself was in disbelief about that big of the discrepancy. Reached out to a family manager who runs a carmax like business and he replied he has seen a difference of 110 points highest…
When you dig into it, it’s really not strange. It’s unlikely all three of your bureaus match exactly. The risk models are proprietary, and based on all kind of variables (and revised over the years). The score is generated by taking the transaction data from whatever bureau and running it through the model. Why different regions/lenders like a particular bureau sounds like someone justifying why the soda they like is the best and the alternatives suck: same ingredient list in different proportions to get a nearly identical but slightly different output.
If anyone remembers Beacon, that was the gold standard for years until their models were perceived to be profiling people (they were) because zip code was so heavily weighted.
As has been mentioned, even the same scorer (e.g. FICO) has multiple versions of the model based on different factors. Some bureaus have their own (e.g. Auto Enhanced Equifax) specifically to model risk for car loans (which has a slightly lower default rate on the same consumer who might default on their mortgage).
Different models weight different variables higher or lower. The captive lender decides what their risk profile is, and chooses a model to fit, and sets their tiers/scores accordingly. The purpose of all of this is for the people lending you the money to get the right balance of performing/non-performing loans, at the set interest rates, with the right amount of capital, giving them the desired rate of return.
It’s been discussed. You are trying to reduce multivariable calculus to algebra. Nobel gesture but there are no guarantees, even within the same captive. It differs by region, it changes over time.
This
This is really the best answer. If you aren’t certain your score is A-Tier for the vehicle you want: determine the captive, find out what their credit score/tiers are, and get an authoritative credit score from FICO, one of the bureaus, or if you don’t want to pay check your bank. Bank of America, Chase, my Barclays credit card, all give me my FICO v2 (non-Auto) scores for free, updated monthly. It’s generally lower than your FICO v8 or an Auto Enhanced score, so you’ll know what you’re dealing with.
If you’re on the line, you either have to have them run your credit or roll the dice.
Credit Karma is hit or miss. It’s 80 points off on mine.
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BMW dealer said I was 51 points higher than credit karma says for me
My wife’s was significantly higher as well. The main lint was it’s not an accurate representation.
Those who are actually in the car business can attest for the fact that Credit Karma is not accurate and there is plenty of information via Google that discusses why it is not accurate when applying for auto loans.
Credit Karma uses VantageScore where as most banks pull a FICO score which can drastically change.
I’ve had customers where FICO pulls 50-80 points lower than what Credit Karma reads.
In my experience it seems that Credit Karma doesn’t account for clients history and delinquencies as much as when running a FICO check.
Somebody in here who is a finance manager might be able to shed more light on it but there is plenty of information on google that discusses it.
It’s possible someone can give you anecdotal information about what seems to account for score variations: but they don’t know.
The scoring models are actuarial secret sauce, the ones from larger firms have many more cooks in the kitchen.
What bureau got pulled, for what date range, poured through the funnel is different for every person, every 30 days. You need a statistically significant sample of inputs and outputs to begin to try and reverse engineer. This is why it took so longer to figure out that Beacon was dinging credit scores for demographics it should not have been (over-weight of zip code loan performance turned out to racially profile in many instances).
The score simulators from the various scoring places are a better way to understand specific impact to your score from a particular action. Comparing two people’s vantage and auto enhanced equifax is non-deterministic.
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My CKARMA Vantage Score and Experian FICO Score are within 5 points of each other…
That may be true for you, but most of the time it’s not true for someone else. Every scoring model is calculated different… it’s best to find out your true FICO scores than to rely on CK or other sources Vantage scores… those scores are not used by the financial institutions to make credit decisions therefore unreliable.
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