As an aside, I think this is a flaw with the current process for incentivizing EV/PHEVs. I really like my e-tron, and the $7500 extra incentive is a big part of why it’s in my driveway, but there’s no reason the tax payer should be subsidizing luxury car purchases for the middle/upper class. I’d much rather see the money going towards EV infrastructure than redistributing wealth.
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It’s a bit of a Catch 22. Without the $7500 (and state/local incentives) people won’t buy the EV, which would make the EV infrastructure you mention not needed. On the other hand, the money all goes towards purchases, and leaves those drivers with a poor network for their cars.
I know, right? Tesla can’t sell a single car now that the rebate has expired for them. Not to mention GM ceased all their investment into EVs when it expired for them.
I get what you’re saying, but I think we’re getting past the point where it’s really necessary.
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Why not. For a 190k Taycan Turbo S I don’t think they would notice the $7,500. Let’s be realistic here, the rebate is a good idea, but it should be tiered either on MSRP of the vehicle or potentially even income like CVRP.
You make less, you get more incentive to purchasing a safer, more reliable, and eco-friendly vehicle, an EV version of cash for clunkers, upgrade your older gas car to an EV.
But at the end of the day, sustainable transportation is one part in stopping or reversing global climate change, it also involves more sustainable land practices (mining, farming, etc), material usage, and resource management/distribution.
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But hasn’t Tesla proven the rebate is merely more money for the manufacturer? Elon was able to lower the prices when the rebate dried up. So, in reality, the money went to Tesla, just in a roundabout way.
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It doesn’t necessarily prove anything, and if anything I would say Tesla has gradually matured its production flow and model 3 being the real first large scale production car has kept driving down the cost. And decreasing battery price helped as well. You can somehow attributes these effects, at least partly, to the very intention of these credits: to subsidize a promising industry in its infant stage until it’s competitive. Not just the EV industry itself, the whole supply chain that’s associated with it.
A better example will be PHEVs, BMW and Audi are doing them in parallels to their own gas counterpart respectively and they are priced pretty close to each other. Things like Volvo’s T8 or RAV4 are more expensive than the top gas trims but they offer much more power as well, so they are about in line as well.
For a $190K car no. But how many $190K are sold vs a $30-50K car? That’s where the $7500+ state/local incentives make a huge difference.
Of course. Every govt incentive goes to the producer of the thing that is incentivized in a round about way. Why does college cost $50K a year? Because the govt gives all sorts of grants to people for college. Where do those grants go? To the colleges. And it’s a self perpetuating thing. More incentives = higher tuition. Then because of the high tuition, more incentives are needed. Rinse and repeat forever.
See also real estate. The govt gives all sorts of incentives to home buyers. Everything from the mortgage interest deduction, to capital gains exemption to first time home buyer credits. All this just makes housing more expensive, which benefits the housing industry.
EVs behave no differently.
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yes, all true. I just meant more pure profit as opposed to actually subsidizing the development cost.
Maybe @FuzzyIBJ is right and Tesla’s need for the extra incentive was perfectly aligned with a drop in development and build cost so that their profit on each unit was the same with or without the incentive. I find that REALLY hard to believe, but I’ll admit it is not totally impossible.
I am actually surprised that the trade-in prices or retail selling prices of these “used” EV’s don’t account for at least the federal credit - e.g. the prices of a used EV with minimal miles is almost the same as the price of a brand new one. I personally wouldn’t purchase a used one if the difference wasn’t more than 7,500 plus the expected depreciation, but we are definitely in a wild market now.
Didn’t mean to provoke any sorta discussion on here… I found my first 4XE on a lot in April. I had just sold my truck and didn’t want to wait for a build. Almost instantly I had a feeling of regret for not getting what I wanted in my 4XE. I sold it for what I was offered. I am 100% keeping my 2nd. It was never my intention to sell it so soon. I only created the original post because of the many many questions I’ve read of people asking if Chrysler capital was allowing the buyouts so soon and how the process went. I don’t feel as if I stole anything and am not sure what the tax police on here would of had me do? Tell auto lenders thanks but no thanks I’d like less money? Either way they list it for some outrageous price and someone will buy it.
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The Bennett Hypothesis has been studied for decades, apparently, and there isn’t actually much data to show support for it…
I read an article recently that they receive tens and tens of millions of calls a year. The number is so great that it’s nearly impossible to get through without a hold time of less than 45 minutes. People end up hanging up, but first navigating the prompts is a skill in itself
ugh. Don’t get me started. They’ve owed my parents’ estate $11k for over a year now. Can’t get through on phone and can’t make in-person appt. There is no way for me to get a hold of anybody and ask where the heck the refund is. The website has been saying it is under review for 14 mos.
One guy had it under review for at least 5 years.
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Did he get paid and did they pay interest?
Not the refund, audit. Sorry lol
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$8k profit doesn’t sound right to me. He sold the car early so had to pay all the remaining payments (which already included the $7500 tax credit), RV, deposition fee.
Did I miss anything here?
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The price he sold it for was much higher than the price he paid to lease it.
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Everybody complaining about lessors who stop support 3rd party pay-offs…
It’s like complaining that your tax avoidance scheme stopped working.
Just as bad as the EV rebate stealers.
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