Broker quotes conventions in marketplace

In the case of BMW, I think they knew the pendulum swing back toward reality in used car pricing would be coming sooner than later so they didn’t rush out to pump the residuals like some other manufacturers did.

The correction needed to happen but yes, some models could use with a bit more rebate to help move them along.

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If you’re referring to dealer doc fees, they do change by state. In Ohio, the max doc fee is 250. In NY, I believe it is 75 unless it has changed. In FL, I believe there is no limit.

NYS is $175 now.

Thanks for the update.

But it’s based on the selling dealer state, not the customer reg state. So doc fees can be integrated in the price.


I think he’s referring to the doc fee for the specific deal the broker is offering.


word. this right here is the inconvenient and sad truth of our country.

It certainly is. The next shockwave that will crack the system is personal loans. Personal loans create an illusion of a much higher credit score because they do not count against your usage. I don’t know if it will be tomorrow or 5 years from now, but that’s what will do it, and no one will see it coming. Think of Sofi, Affirm, etc. Those companies will probably collapse and a few others. These companies hold a massive bag of unsecured loans that will be the first to not be paid in a dire situation. Not financial advice.

yes exactly. if i recall correctly, there was/is proposed legislation to include these in consumer credit reports, though i’m not sure what state it’s at currently or whether it’s dead now.
we are at the highest level of outstanding consumer debt historically right now.
i’m in real estate and this topic came up at a conference recently. there’s also a large amount of debt among homeowners in the form of home equity credit lines (heloc) which are the revolving type of credits just like credit cards, as well as home equity loans (similar to mortgages). too many people have tapped into these options because their income simply doesn’t cover their expenses. some living beyond their means as a choice, some not (medical expenses, education expenses etc). we are totally expecting this group of people tapping out soon and having to sell their homes (or else they’ll have to go in foreclosure); yet don’t expect anything like 2008-11 wave since there’s also a historically high level of built-in equity in those homes, and system-wide fire sales aren’t likely to happen coupled with a housing market crash. looks like this will be much more subdued/softer landing type of situation.
sad and unfortunate is all in can say.

Which one of you crazies read this and crashed Affirm stock today? Hope someone cashed in on my not financial advice. Down nearly 14%. Wow.

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Anyone else got tripped up by the way GCauto posts their California Ioniq deals where sales tax seems to be about 50%? In all fairness, they do show numbers with 9.5% separately but the pretax number is either useless or misleading to those who don’t understand how CA taxes incentives.


I don’t think they’re the only ones doing it. I think Omega is also not including taxes on their offerings on LH (although you can go to their website and get a quote that includes taxes). All the brokers used to include taxes, at least at an average 8.5%, and then if you live somewhere where it’s higher or lower, they just adjust for it, but now, I can’t tell who’s including taxes and who’s not. I know @Jeff_BeachCitiesAuto definitely includes everything. You literally just put $2k on your credit card, and dive off the lot.


Wrong post. 2020202002

I just slap another /100mo to whatever the price displayed

I can see the annoyance tho in seeing a great payment with 4500/das. Its even worse when it’s shorter then 36 months :rofl:


$4,500 in your example needs context.

In CA with strong incentives that could be just the upfront sales tax and TTL on an e-tron GT, for example.

In NJ that same amount would cover the acquisition fee, everything above and likely leave plenty left for CCR or MSDs.

This speaks to why advertising offers at $0 DAS would be a disaster. You’d have to reverse engineer and re-engineer every deal for your own situation.

Would it though? You get a more accurate price off the bat advertising 1st month only DAS with 0 tax (or include a certain high tax state as most go off CA in the west and NJ/NY on the east) as you would for having to go in and remove 3-4k das, 7.5k miles, MSD, and additional incentives that seem to always be included.

Do many Cali broker deals happen outside Cali? If anything, you know the price would go down if shopping outside a high tax state or state that taxes incentives.

I see it both ways, but it would be nice to open a calculator for once and see price go down after making my own adjustments instead of knowing the effective is a couple hundred higher the way most advertise now, especially on shorter term deals. If there was a required standardization for all broker ads (I.e. effective payment only), it would be much easier to compare.

I just ran 2 calcs on the same car (non ev) for NJ vs PA which has a different tax structure and the effective came out within ~$8 of each other.

This comes up a few times a year and nothing ever comes of it, so until next time!

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Sales tax alone varies by 3.5% from city to city, just within CA.


When I negotiate pricing I always negotiate on pre-sales tax and pre-DMV fees. I do this because when I shop for cars I shop in many states. I keep the variables out of the mix to not muddy the waters. The tax and DMV fees paid by the consumer is fixed and can’t be negotiated. Whatever that amount is, add it on when a deal is complete.

To me it makes most sense to advertise the same way. $0 DAS excluding any money that goes to the government.

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to be fair, 99% of the CA brokers provide nothing other than “$5k due at signing + tax”. 0 disclosure about selling price, rate, bank, etc.


Why would personal loans not be on your credit report, or why would they not count? It’s a debt and you pay on it just like any other credit obligation.

Seems strange.