True & maybe then it will be manufacturers vs manufacturers.
Are you referring to direct sales?
How dare you?
Pretty much. But thereâs still scrapmeat on the boneâŚthat concierge has to come from somewhere, and that value in covid era seems to be around $100. All is not lost.
Edit: since it seems they still need to leave via Lyft/Uber, maybe this gets taken over by them?
If there isnât much deal to be had or letâs say if it goes from 10-15% pre pandemic to the new norm of MSRP, many savvy shoppers may decide to save elsewhere and just pay MSRP for cars. Subscription model, direct sales like Tesla⌠those will replace dealer/brokers. How do we prevent that and ensure lease hacking remain viable? 
Simple question, there is a whole lot of rambling in multiple threads of what basically boils down to death to dealerships, but where are all of the cars going to be serviced? Every manufacturer is going to build out their own service centers? Iâm not a fan of the current car buying process, but I also donât see much through put into all of these rants either.
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Wife and I were just discussing this yesterdayâŚI commented that if I accidently drifted into that Tesla beside us, I could get my car fixed the following day. Not so much for that Tesla. Tired of waiting, there are folks buying used parts on CL/FB/Fleabay to get their Teslaâs fixed.
Worse, Iâm seeing a lot of Teslaâs just not getting fixedâŚtheyâre truly the new Camrys on our roads here,
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One price will be manufacturer controlled, like Tesla or Saturn. Donât be surprised to see it in the near future. Everyone is pushing towards easy online purchases. Also donât be surprised to see large corporations buy up all these smaller dealer groups to where they all follow the same pricing structure or close locations.
Maybe they are around you, but I hardly experience brokers outside of this forum. And most of the broker deal I have facilitated off of this forum are for the most part normal deals. They find a car someone wants and make sure it fits in their clientâs budget.
And to both points, this is where LH is disconnected from the actual world of car buying. 90% of buyers arenât hardcore shoppers trying to negotiate to the last penny and keeping spreadsheets. Most people pick out the car they want, maybe use a tool like KBB or TrueCar to get a fair price, and buy it after visiting a dealer or two.
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True.
I would disagree,there are all kinds of consumers here, some may just want the fair price & some might want every single penny.
I can see that. Just like that story that is running in the end of dealerships lol
90% of buyers will negotiate to the last penny, they just donât know what the last penny is. They will just argue with dumb numbers that make no sense, and some information they heard from someone use once.
There are tons of ridiculously rich people who will negotiate for âfunsiesâ and because there is no downside for them as itâs a game.
Ah yes, quoting Saturn as a success story. Good plan.
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Easy to talk a big game in the middle of a black swan event. Maybe the hope is massive govt subsidies to fund huge EV capital investments and milk the ICE market with higher margin products for the next 10-15 years.
Auto makers have high capital fixed costs and traditionally low margins. There is a glut of WW manufacturers (which is a great thing for consumers). Hyundai/Kia and others will emerge first from the chip shortage and continue to crank up the market share with the bottomâs up approach and outfeaturing entry level âluxuryâ makers on safety features and std options (Clayton Christensen business model).
Since BMW and Mercedes are well over 50% lease ratio in the US, trying to sell at or above MSRP is going to be interesting. The over MSRP model wonât work long on common entry and midstream luxury models. When the WW economy resets and the supply/demand balance returns. And its dead if and when interest rates start heading higher. At some point dumb money runs out.
Unless we are going to start seeing Residual % rising for the next few years to make up some of the difference in MSRP+ adders and fewer incentives.
We are all forgetting the EV wave and mandates over the next two decades is the biggest disruptor to the auto industry since its inception
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You donât. LH evolves into something else or becomes another car enthusiast site.
Maybe www.MSRPhackr.com
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Better buy that URL quick. Could be worth millions!
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@wam22 is a former BMW salesman and said that they had no issues selling at slightly lower than list, and the majority of them now lower than at least 500 over invoice. Not sure how you come to this conclusion on the outside.
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I was suggesting something similar to this may occur but to a more limited degree. The problem with this strategy is there is substantial risk. The value of a car dealership franchise is almost exclusively tied to state requirements that only allow franchised dealers to sell new cars. Honda canât just sell cars directly or open up more franchises. How could that change?
Well say this consolidation happens and prices on cars go up. Due to this monopoly it becomes much more like expensive to buy one car in this state than say in NYC or DMV where the dealership consolidation hasnât occured. This creates political anger. Then maybe in this state the automobile lobby throws its weight nearly 100% behind one party and that party has a real bad election cycle and loses control of state government. A couple changes to state law and that exclusive control of territory becomes essentially worthless. New franchises are authorized to restore competition. Even if the law changes back, the damage is done.
Line level workers (and salesman in a dealership is exactly that) are rarely a source of any useful information about the state of the industry. They are usually limited by a very narrow view of locality, how that particular business operates, etc. Rarely are those views are applicable anywhere else outside of the immediate area.
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I donât know if I buy that completely. These places all talk to each other in the same region. They arenât blind. If heâs sold BMW and now Porsche, heâs not a slouch if he wants to make some money. Itâs not like these brands are high volume
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I donât disagree that someone people use stupid numbers and info, but a majority just want to feel like they werenât fâd over. Many people donât have the time, patience, negotiating skills, or confidence to negotiate to their last penny.
Very true. I have had legit billionaires negotiate because they can. And other billionaires not care at all. And another who just wanted the âfeel goodâ discount. And others use brokers. There are instances of everything, but I am just speaking from my experience of selling a 1000+ cars and probably responding to over 10,000 inquiries, which leads me back to my previous point.
At what point did I say it was a good plan? I just said it was the way the market is trending. It will probably take money out of a lot of sales peoplesâ pockets who are used to giving away cars and chasing volume.
Relax, breathe, I can go back and put a smiley face onto the post to make it a âdigâ as it was supposed to be.
You sold BMW and now Porsche, not exactly the entirety of car market. Porsche is a complete âwantâ brand with no real âcheapâ entry. BMW is split into âwantâ and âbadgeâ cars, so it does make it a little more like the rest of the car market, but itâs still luxury brand. The challenges that BMW and Porsche have are not the same as Chevy letâs say.
The sales experience is also very location dependent. When I was last shopping for a lease, the big dealer group in NJ wouldnât budge on anything (pre completet clusterfudge). So I asked them why would a dealership in PA be willing to negotiate, and their response was basically so go there, we donât need the volume, they clearly do. And this is not even 100 miles between them. What a dealer will do a 1000 miles away will be very different.
I am sure that the current market of milking leases at MSRP+ on limited inventory and shortage FUD is working like a charm now, especially in higher income areas.
Due to the current black swan events of unlimited Fed Money, Q2 2020 pandemic shocks, auto chip shortage/poor auto industry contingency planning. Add in a lot of blue moon âfoundâ money with trade-ins and lease equity to soften the MSRP adders and lower the perceived monthlies.
As another wildcard China seems to be putting the clamps on higher income earners which could be catastrophic to all of the luxury badge maker growth plans.
The WW automotive business is capital intensive and competitive and at some point supply/demand balance returns and economic realities will kick in.
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And Audi and Acura plus almost every brand of pre-owned vehicles. I have sold new and used cars from $5,000 to $300,000 to everywhere from CA to MA and TX to MN.
I understand you want to discredit my experiences to prove your points, but your singular experience holds even less weight. You donât think I know that some dealer down the road or a million miles might have different sales strategies? Again I am talking general trends across the industry, in which I have eons more experience than you. Part of being successful in this industry is identifying trends and either capitalizing on current ones or building towards future trends. I know if someone is price shopping us with a particular dealer, I have to be more aggressive or less aggressive. And the general trend is towards a single, non-negotiable price with an online buying experience. That is being identified by every major brand, luxury or not. We are already seeing this with Carmax, Carvana, etc.
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