No one is siding with the dealer but if you know there’s damage to the car, why would you drive it off the lot?
Like there are no unethical clients. Not saying it is the case here. And no one is siding with anyone because no one knows the whole truth.
Consumers are always right, and sales are always scumbags…you should know that by now
I’m appalled by the amount of people here telling you to drop this. Stick to your guns, be persistent and you will prevail. Keep us updated. Good luck my friend!
I don’t think people want him to just “drop” this. The point of view is that OP shares some responsibility for identifying a problem with the car before taking delivery and still taking it anyways. It’s about being accountable for your decisions.
Any updates from OP? I’m invested now.
I’ve never shirked any responsibility for driving off the lot with a known issue. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have. However, that doesn’t absolve the dealer from liability associated with trying to pass off a new car that’s had previous damage and repairs above a certain dollar amount in Pennsylvania without disclosing it to the consumer.
Give the consumer the opportunity to make an informed decision based on actual knowledge about the condition of the car. At a certain price point, maybe a consumer would be willing to live with the previous damage/repairs, but don’t force the consumer to pay just as much as somebody buying an undamaged/unrepaired car and then force that consumer to further repair the car. What if there are currently-unknown latent defects in connection with the previous repairs that arise over time?
At the end of the day, the most appalling thing about the experience is the arrogance of the dealer and complete lack of proper customer relations expected of a premium brand dealer. I was expecting a Nordstrom’s-like customer service experience, but instead got a K-Mart-like “all sales final” experience.
For those wondering, I continue to work with the PA Attorney General and Alfa Corporate. Thanks for the messages of support.
Well honestly all sales are final. This isn’t like returning a shirt you don’t like. The car sale was reported to dmv and I have no idea if that can be even reversed.
Probably can’t be reversed 4 weeks after the sale, but could’ve easily been reversed the day after the sale, when I first brought the issue up to the dealer.
What would make you whole?
Fixing the car?
A new one to replace it?
What are your expectations?
I’m asking sincerely.
See the first post in this thread for my 2 “make it right” options
That may be asking a lot… The trade is gone, they can’t just recreate it the original deal and unwind the whole thing.
I don’t know man. I keep putting myself in both your shoes and the dealer’s shoes and the most logical way to deal with this (in a business sense) is to try to pay to have the damage completely fixed and just turn back the car at lease-end so it’s no longer your problem…
Is the car’s main functionality disrupted from the damage?
I don’t know . . . do you know if the trade is gone? Then we’re back to having only one option. Unless the dealer wants to propose something different, and that goes substantially beyond their “repair” offer to-date.
What proof do you have that the damage is above the threshold? Are you assuming it is, or do you have concrete evidence? A bowed bumper and a couple missing clips doesn’t automatically indicate the damage was above the threshold to report.
It would be up to the dealer to furnish retail-value repair receipts. The car has clearly had previous bodywork done to it based on the professional opinions of 2 different body shops.
Well, best of luck OP. I think the dealer definitely owes you some sort of satisfactory resolution, but I just don’t think this situation calls for a whole new car… that would mean thousands in further losses for the dealer if they took your car in and gave you a new one at no additional cost to you. It would be cheaper for them if you took them to court over it.
I too am unconvinced that a new car is warranted in regards to the situation. I think that ship has sailed a LONG way back as the window on that scenario was really small to begin with but I do, however, find the dealer’s lack of effort to make you reasonably happy severely lacking. I’d like to think that they they’d have gotten ahead of this issue when you pointed out the damage upon delivery and simply offered right then and there to have the car inspected by a reputable shop and fixed to Alfa standards along with an apology for not catching it when they prepped the car…
I would like to address Mercmaser’s statement as well as provide you with photos from the evening he picked up his Stelvio, a repair estimate and my perspective.
My name is Lou and I’m the GM of Auto Express AR of Erie. Mercmaser (Tony) did make a 950 mile trip to trade in a vehicle and purchase a new 2018 Stelvio from us. Upon arriving to our store,Tony spent about 20 minutes going over this vehicle in a well lit service drive. There were clearly no glaring signs of damage or previous repairs to the vehicle. As Tony was getting ready to leave, he noticed a very insignificant misalignment issue where the rear bumper cover and quarter panel meet. He brought it to our attention. We took these pictures that evening.
That’s Tony with the light color shoes that you see in the reflection
Tony, his salesperson and the manager on duty came to the conclusion that this insignificant misalignment issue could easily be remedied by either an AR dealer with a body shop close to his home (we don’t own a body shop in case you’re wondering) or, any competent body shop of his choice. We assured Tony that we’d take care of the expense to “make the vehicle right”. He accepted this resolution and took the vehicle.
Upon arriving home the following day, Tony stopped at KSC sprayworks paint and body. He showed them the issue he had with the vehicle and asked if they could resolve it in a PDR fashion (pop a dent out). They told him they didn’t believe the panel was dented. Allegedly they told him the vehicle had been repaired/repainted and put back together incorrectly. They didn’t give him any documentation of this, it was all verbal. This is 1 of the professional opinions he cites. Tony asks us to contact them, so we did. They did tell us they believe the rear bumper cover had been removed and reinstalled, possibly incorrectly, but couldn’t tell why.They said they came to this conclusion because the upper 2 bolts that attach the bumper cover to the vehicle were missing.They put extra emphasis on the fact that this was speculation based on the brief look they had. They explained to Tony he would need to leave it with them so they could do a thorough evaluation and give him an estimate. They made no verbal mention of the bumper cover being damaged or repaired to us.
Shortly after our conversation with KCS, Tony contacted us and said he didn’t want his vehicle because it had been previously damaged. He demanded that we bring him another vehicle, or return his trade and void his transaction. We informed him that our conversation with KCS was a bit different than his alleged conversation and those weren’t reasonable options based on the limited info we had. I told him the next step would be to get a thorough evaluation/estimate, in writing, from a shop of his choice, and we’d discuss further from there. This is what he provided me with.
This is his second professional opinion and the only one he had in writing. Iv’e never seen nor heard of a 3rd opinion. As you can see from this estimate, by a shop of his choosing, there’s no mention of previous damage/repair and they can make the vehicle perfect without putting a drop of paint on it for $143.
At that point, I had the above pictures and estimate to make a decision. Armed with this information, I felt paying for the repair as well as providing alternate transportation in the interim was fair. That’s what I offered and he wasn’t interested.
Tony and I traded emails over the next couple days. He held firm to his “only acceptable resolutions” 1. another vehicle, identical to the one he had, or 2. trailer his trade back and void his transaction. He made it abundantly clear that nothing else was acceptable. My position was that those resolutions weren’t acceptable to us for several reasons. I reminded him that there was no documentation anywhere that stated this vehicle was repaired/damaged like he kept insisting and we’d honor our original agreement as promised. He told me we were at an impasse and that if I didn’t agree to his “only acceptable resolutions” I should no longer contact him, instead contact his attorney. At that point I stopped correspondence with him. I didn’t feel the need to contact his attorney. His attorney must have felt the same because I never heard from him either.
I recently stumbled across this post. I thought it would be fair for you to see actual photo’s of the vehicle from the evening he picked it up, as well as the only repair estimate I was provided. Also, I think it’s important for you to keep in consideration that; This vehicle was part of a multi unit acquisition from another dealer (AR, Ferrari, Maserati dealer). I don’t bring this up to pass blame, but to bring to your attention that multiple people (Managers, Technicians, and Transport Drivers) have done inspections to this vehicle and not one has documented damage of any kind. There are no records of damage to this vehicle from the port, previous dealer, Carfax or internally with us. We received the vehicle with 10 miles on it. We drove it 5 miles when we inspected it for the state of PA and another 4 miles to and from the gas station to fill the tank. At delivery the vehicle had 19 miles on it.
Thanks for coming here and providing your point of view, this is always appreciated.
From the photos it doesn’t appear there was any paint repair made and the bumper was definitely replaced for whatever reason as determined by each body shop. 150 dollars to deal with the problem is quite fair.
I know many here won’t agree with me, but halfway through this thread I started to feel as the resolutions OP wanted were definitely unfair and off base. At the end of the day he signed a contract and accepted responsibility for the vehicle. Stuff happens and it’s a live and learn type deal. I guess I missed the point where it was a QV, but great vehicle.
I hope OP doesn’t hate the car now just because of this 150 dollar issue. I know for some folks it can make a world of difference the knowledge that something isn’t 100 percent.
Not taking sides, just my perception of the situation.
Thanks for taking the time to read it. I hope he enjoys his vehicle as well.