I’ve tried but he’s been busy
Literally everything in this class leases better than an S5. An M3 will lease better than an S5.
You can get a 400hp Q50 Red Sport in the low to mid-$400s and put zero down. That’s half the price of an S5. Yeah, the infotainment system sucks, but you will save over $15,000, on something you don’t even own.
I think for me it’s either an S5 or a AMG C43.
I’ve been trying to calculate the lease payments myself using leasehackr and some other calculators out there (CarCzar app) but I am getting post-tax monthly off by 80-100/month.
What would you guys consider a great deal on an S5 presuming no money down?
Pardon my ignorance, help me understand:
I am also looking at the S5. Looking at edmunds MF DocOz got is typycal: 0.00123 with RV going from 56% to as high as 59% depending on the package with 36/12
I can see that Q50 or Q60 go with MF as low as 0.0003, which is essentially interest free. However the RV is around 50-51%
So here is my math: take a 50K capitalization for simplicity.
For Qx0, the cost of lease with 0.00003/50% is $20,237
For S5, with 0.0123 and 58% RV it’s $18,733
My question is why is everyone advising against leasing Audi as some of the worst deals? What am I missing here?
You will get a pretty hefty discount on the Q50 versus the S5. That will make a big difference in your calculations as the residual is based off of MSRP and not the selling price.
Audi’s lease horribly because compared to other brands they offer fewer incentives and generally less discounts. Comparing them to similar cars from Alfa Romeo or Infiniti they can often be gotten with 20% off, you’ll almost never get anywhere near that, even for sedans which Audi are more flexible with pricing.
You’ll need to put in far more work to get a good deal on an Audi (assuming you don’t work with a broker), and even then it will look poor in comparison to similar vehicles from other manufacturers.
Have a look at the Trophy thread and compare the Audi deals to BMW, Merc, etc: Trophy Garage [ Photos ]. The difference is often 33% or more for extreme deals. I’ve owned a Golf R and Audi TT, my wife has a Q5 so we’re not anti-Audi, but they just don’t often offer much value.
Hi Alex, thanks for the response. When yhou say “less discounts” and 20% off, are you referring to the selling price, i.e. 20% off MSRP, or something else? Because looking at their high residual value, it seems to compensate for the high MF!
You’re right that a high RV is a major factor in getting a good deal. But say an S5 and BMW 440i has the same residual and MSRP, then the main variables to getting a good deal would be the MF and discounts/incentives. If Audi has a higher MF and lower discounts that’s going to make them uncompetitive.
Audi sedans tend to have higher discounts but S and especially RS models tend to buck that trend.
There’s a few errors here.
First, you can’t simply assume $50K for each model. According to google, the base price of an S5 is $54,400, the base price of the QX60 is $43,300, and the base price of the QX50 is only $36,550. In short, the capitalization figures you list you list above simply aren’t accurate.
Second, you picked an Audi model with a fairly high RV, and are then erroneously assuming that all Audi models are similar. That’s not true. I just bought an S3, instead of leasing. I ended up buying because the RV was only 47%. It was barely more money to buy the car outright than to lease, on a monthly basis. Assuming I sell the car in a few years, buying will end up being far cheaper.
The Q50 is heavily discounted. You will get 20-25%, maybe more, off MSRP. One guy here got 40% off a Q50 Hybrid.
Also, RV on the 3.0t is 53% I believe. The 4-cylinders have a lower RV though. Historically Q50 RV has been 56%, but they still lease well because the discounts are even steeper now.
I’m on a similar boat right now. My cheap Q50 lease ends August 9th (although Infiniti will let me do month-to-month through February 9th).
Of the cars in the marketplace right now, ignoring price, Audi A5 is what I want, but just don’t know if I can justify spending more a month for it. And even at that I don’t know if I can justify spending more on an A5 than a more heavily discounted A4. I can get 15-17% off an A4. Won’t do that on an A5. If I were buying that’s a different story, but I’m just renting a car for 2-3 years so I approach it from a different angle.
Or I stick it out and wait for what I really want - the new Volvo V60 that comes out in January.
Funny you say that because Audi loses value just as fast if not faster than those other brands once it’s used.
OP move on from this car it’s not a Hackr deal and you’re wasting your time on it. Way above 1% rule for a mass produced car
MBCHEST thanks for the explanation.
I can see two ways to look at this: one is what’s the most car I can get for a fixed monthly fee. In this case, i agree Q60 is a substantially better deal then an S5.
However I don’t think this is how most people look at it: of course a cheaper car is always a cheaper lease. From this perspective Honda civic would be more attractive then Audi A3.
The other way: buy vs lease. In this case I simply fixed the capitalization to $x. Based on the calculation then, S5 is not any worse in terms of the RV/MF combination then say Infinity, to lease then to buy.
I don’t claim all the models of Audi are similar though - I am only unterested in A5 or S5, both are high 50s RV it seems.
I guess this is the new mentality for me – this is my first lease.
I don’t see however how can one compare a car that is heavily discounted because it sells poorly to the hottest car in the segment. Just does not seem like a fair comparison. A hack? Maybe!
Yes agree, ajgraham. Thank you for your comment
The leasehackr forum is primarily focused on finding deals first, regardless of the car. It’s not an exotic, sports or luxury car discussion, although that comes up from time to time.
Look at the most widely posted about cars here- Chevy bolts and volts. These aren’t enthusiast cars; they’re economical cars.
If you look at the Edmunds forums, the moderators make a very valid point pretty often- most of the people shopping for high end cars aren’t as price sensitive as others. The fancy new toys just don’t lease well, because they don’t have to.
What sells poorly? The Q50? No. It’s typically the third largest volume luxury car in the States after the C and 3. The ES and E sometimes slip into the third spot, but generally it sells pretty well, all things considered.
I think you are looking at the calculations incorrectly. There are 3 main factors that are going to make a “good” lease. You want to get a large discount from MSRP, a low money factor, and a high residual value.
It seems like the first factor, getting a large discount, is viewed as a negative by you because you think it means that it’s not selling well or isn’t a good value to begin with. This is simply not true. Sometimes you will run into this situation, and the Maserati Ghibli is a good example. It may have an MSRP of between $80,000 and $90,000 but it is not worth that much. Many people that buy or lease them don’t care and will pay that, but
those with some knowledge should and do get heavy discounts on them.
Audis are great cars, but they aren’t going to lease well compared to other cars in their segment. That doesn’t mean the other cars are inferior, just that Audi does not subsidize leases or offer large discounts to move those units. BMW heavily subsidized leases through artificially high residuals and very low money factors for years, but they are not doing that in the last couple of years and their lease numbers have suffered. That doesn’t mean that BMW cars themselves are any different or less valuable than they were before, just that they have a different way of running their business than they did in the past.
Ok, I will take your word on it. Then how do you explain 20% discounts?
I would say that I am not considering discount off the MSRP because in my mind it does not make it a good or lease (as in lease vs buy), it makes it a good deal overall (buy or lease). I imagine there are cars out there that are selling well and yet one can get a big discount, but Ghibli is a bad example: horribly overpriced car with very bad reviews that only appeals to enthusiast that will take anything for the Ferrari engine, and as the result – deep discounts.
Nor arguing – just saying
My point is that the original poster listed a deal with 56% RV and 0.00123 MF (in aggrgate not dissimilar to what one can get for Q60), and was told - HORRIBLE DEAL, because he "only got 10% off the MSRP?
Well duh, S5 is a brand new hot cake, arguably the sexiest car with the best engine in this segment. How is this Horrible?!